1st Generation chassis idea.

[TuckerK5]

I have a graveyard of 7 first gens and am thinking I want to start restoring with a custom chassis from scratch. Premium drivability along with nice off-road capability is the goal. Any ideas on why or why not? I’m thinking 2x5 tube rails and widening the rails to accommodate LS engine and larger fuel tank. Also thinking four link with coil overs front and rear.

 

[NorCal69]

@Greg72......

 

[blazinzuk]

https://ck5.com/forums/threads/introducing-patriot-chassis.334342/

 

[obijuank5]

Lots of talk about this recently.

What can you bring to the table?

 

[SpeedlabDan]

Check with @sreidmx he just launched patriot. Their chassis definitely has spiked my interest!

 

[sreidmx]

It is actually modeled off of a 72 K5 and we have a 72 K10 shortbed we are putting our chassis under as well! @jkroberts may have pics of said truck??

 

[Greg72]

I have a graveyard of 7 first gens and am thinking I want to start restoring with a custom chassis from scratch. Premium drivability along with nice off-road capability is the goal. Any ideas on why or why not? I’m thinking 2x5 tube rails and widening the rails to accommodate LS engine and larger fuel tank. Also thinking four link with coil overs front and rear.

Sounds like you are looking for an excuse to solve a problem that doesn’t exist.

1st Gen LS swaps have been done, 4-Link suspensions with COs have been done... larger fuel tanks have been done.... all within the constraints of a stock 1st Gen frame. Presumably you are considering adding some extensive cagework to stiffen up the frame for the links/coils anyway... it’s a proven technique that works!

The idea of a custom frame just to make an engine/fuel tank install easier seems like wasted effort unless you have a much crazier set of requirements in mind than you mentioned originally.


-G

 

[TuckerK5]

Sounds like you are looking for an excuse to solve a problem that doesn’t exist.

1st Gen LS swaps have been done, 4-Link suspensions with COs have been done... larger fuel tanks have been done.... all within the constraints of a stock 1st Gen frame. Presumably you are considering adding some extensive cagework to stiffen up the frame for the links/coils anyway... it’s a proven technique that works!

The idea of a custom frame just to make an engine/fuel tank install easier seems like wasted effort unless you have a much crazier set of requirements in mind than you mentioned originally.


-G

If I use one of my existing frames the prep work looks like more work than building from scratch to me.
On top of that I am currently driving a FG with an LS and the frame was cut for the exhaust on both sides, had to change brackets to move accessories to avoid frame, had to change oil pan which is now sitting on the Dirty Dingo crossmember.

Also thinking if I start from scratch on the frame I can see what’s easily available as far as four links and axle set ups and I can adapt the frame to them as I build it.
Got a friend with a laser scanner and resources to get the frame rails CNC formed to my spec.
I also want to keep the floorpan low behind the front seats like the later models.

 

[TuckerK5]

Lots of talk about this recently.

What can you bring to the table?

I grew up in a steel sheering business so I have a pretty good understanding of square and parallel and automatically convert all fractions (down to 1/16”) to decimals in my head. I have an acquaintance that can CNC me a plate to make a table out of that will be precisely square and parallel. I think I can build a table and get it level with a machine level and use it for assembly and build a jig on the table so that I can then easily repeat the process. Maybe I’m over confident and there is something more complicated than what I am seeing and I guess I’m looking for someone to throw something at me that I haven’t considered, that might make me say “maybe this is more complicated than I thought it was”.

 

[obijuank5]

"One size fits all"

 

[Greg72]

I grew up in a steel sheering business so I have a pretty good understanding of square and parallel and automatically convert all fractions (down to 1/16”) to decimals in my head. I have an acquaintance that can CNC me a plate to make a table out of that will be precisely square and parallel. I think I can build a table and get it level with a machine level and use it for assembly and build a jig on the table so that I can then easily repeat the process. Maybe I’m over confident and there is something more complicated than what I am seeing and I guess I’m looking for someone to throw something at me that I haven’t considered, that might make me say “maybe this is more complicated than I thought it was”.

Building the frame is the easy part.

Knowing where all your ideal link and crossmember locactions need to be ahead of time is the impossible part. I have a perfect frame template now for a hydroformed or CNC-bent 1st Gen frame but only because I spent years building everything 3 times and checking my suspension /steering travel constantly along the way...


-G

 

[blazinzuk]

Irregardless of the amount of work if you have a stock frame sitting there and are going whole hog on a resto/mod type build I see no reason to not build a frame. It sounds like you are familiar with metal working.

In my happy little world the biggest reasons not to build a frame have to do with lack of time, lack of money, or lack of skill.

Performance and longevity will be improved.

It takes time but mostly cause it's very easy to improve on the stock frame. So adding improvement and modifications take some time.

If you have the time, skill, and know how, I'd say get to it!

 

[TuckerK5]

Building the frame is the easy part.

Knowing where all your ideal link and crossmember locactions need to be ahead of time is the impossible part. I have a perfect frame template now for a hydroformed or CNC-bent 1st Gen frame but only because I spent years building everything 3 times and checking my suspension /steering travel constantly along the way...


-G

Would that template be in the form of a drawing that I could get access to?

 

[Greg72]

Would that template be in the form of a drawing that I could get access to?

The “template” I’m referring to is my heavily modified existing frame.

The point I was trying to make is that no matter how perfectly you build your frame initially, it will be wrong later on as your build moves toward completion. I have made SO many changes to mine that it’s become obvious I could have NEVER anticipated everything that would need rework to clear links / mounts / driveshafts / exhaust etc.

The final result could now be laser-scanned to create a perfect new one, but unless I was going into production there isn’t a reason to bother at this point....

I’d suggest cleaning up your best candidate frame and just start building.... the frame will “evolve” as a natural byproduct of your build process


-G

 

[blazinzuk]

The “template” I’m referring to is my heavily modified existing frame.

The point I was trying to make is that no matter how perfectly you build your frame initially, it will be wrong later on as your build moves toward completion. I have made SO many changes to mine that it’s become obvious I could have NEVER anticipated everything that would need rework to clear links / mounts / driveshafts / exhaust etc.

The final result could now be laser-scanned to create a perfect new one, but unless I was going into production there isn’t a reason to bother at this point....

I’d suggest cleaning up your best candidate frame and just start building.... the frame will “evolve” as a natural byproduct of your build process


-G

Hence the reason @sreidmx and his patriot chassis is so cool. Yes there are small things that might need to be changed to get perfect, a notch here a cut there but with the amount of adaptability built in to the frame with additional bolt holes for crossmembers and motor mounts and link type stuff and leaf springs it really is an awesome piece. I have done that on Cherokees before when welding on frame stiffeners we drill the stiffener and put several holes in it then drill through mostly just plating the backside. The proper way would be to sleeve between the two. Additional bolt holes makes things way easier. Did it years ago on a first gen frame I boxed for a guy.

 

[TuckerK5]

I do like the patriot chassis concept. I think it will be a solid unit.
After I talked to David at Brooks welding in Oneonta, Al. about forming my frame rails today, I am more convinced to go at this on my own. It turns out that David is into restoration of old cars too and he has built a few of his own frames and has the same idea I do about building a table for assembly. He also mentioned that Brooks does powder coating and when my frame or possibly frames are complete I can take them back to them for powder coating.
So today I ordered the plate to be CNC’d for my table.
Next I will be ordering some tubing for table frame and get that built and set in place.

 

[sreidmx]

I do like the patriot chassis concept. I think it will be a solid unit.
After I talked to David at Brooks welding in Oneonta, Al. about forming my frame rails today, I am more convinced to go at this on my own. It turns out that David is into restoration of old cars too and he has built a few of his own frames and has the same idea I do about building a table for assembly. He also mentioned that Brooks does powder coating and when my frame or possibly frames are complete I can take them back to them for powder coating.
So today I ordered the plate to be CNC’d for my table.
Next I will be ordering some tubing for table frame and get that built and set in place.

The patriot frame is not a catchall for everyone, we’re trying to hit it in the middle, the more standard trucks or more extreme do not fit the use case. I am super stoked to see your frame and what you come up with, @Greg72 had really good data (he’s a data guy to the max btw) for your year ranges. Good luck man!! This is gonna be rad!