383 starter?

[jagermiester]

I have a 10.5:1 383. it had a 168 tooth flywheel and a small block chevy starter. It works for a while the grinds. This is how I got it. So I replaced the starter and re shimmed it (one shim) and it was good and the a day later started doing the same thing. So last night I replaced the flywheel and I want to get the right starter so I dont have too do that again any time soon. I started asking around and this is what I was told.

1. There are 2 different frlywheels for a 400 153 tooth and 168 tooth
2. A standard small block starter (ie 1983 350) will only work w/ the 153 tooth
3. The starter that will work for the 168 tooth is one of those mini torque starters
4. A 69 camaro with a 307 has the starter that would be needed to use the 168 tooth flexplate

Can anyone tell me if any of this is true. I do know that a standard starter does not seem to work w/ my 167 tooth flywheel. I tried no shim, 1 shim, 2 shims, 3 shims, and 4 shims no of which worked please help

 

[sled_dog]

Most of the mini high torque starters will work with EITHER tooth count. I got a summit brand one for my 10.5:1 383. My Vortec truck with its upper 9:1 compression kills regular GM starters, I wasn't even going to bother with a standard starter on my 383. Of course my dad's 11 something to 1, 350 cranks over and just fine and hasn't had a problem with stock starters.

 

[trailblazr81]

I run a standard starter on my 10:1 383. Does yours work fine then has problems, or does it sound kinda funny then craps out. I had to run a stronger battery to get the starter to crank my motor over. Next one will be a high torque mini just to make my life easier when it comes to replacement. I also wrapped mine with a heat shield since the header pipe was cooking my starter. After I drove for a while then stopped to get gas, beer, etc. it would struggle to start. Might look into the remote soloniod kit in summit. That way can mount the solonoid away from all that heat.

 

[jagermiester]

So with my 168 tooth flywheel I should be able to use a stock GM starter. I am not worried about if it has enough power. I am wondering if there is a different starter for a 153 tooth and a 168 tooth flywheel.

 

[Beast388]

There are only two sizes of flexplates for small blocks....the 153 & 168 tooth like you mentioned. The starter that is uses the 153 tooth flexlate has the two mounting bolts that are straight, or perpendicular to the crank centerline. The starter for the 168 tooth flexplate has the two mounting bolts positioned at an angle or staggered.

It is impossible to mix them up. You cannot mount a "straight" starter when using the 168 tooth, as the starter hits the flexplate before you even get close to the bolt holes.

If you mounted a "staggered" starter when using a 153 tooth, the starter wouldn't even engage the gear.

The 153 tooth flexplate is only 12" in diameter and the 168 tooth is 14".

 

[sled_dog]

with a stock starter? Yes there is a different starter. Buy a starter for whatever the flywheel came from. The mini high torque starters have multiple bolt holes for mounting different locations with different flywheels.

 

[jagermiester]

Beast 388 so All blocks w/ the staggered holes (which I have) use a 168 tooth flexplate. All blocks with the inline holes use a 153 tooth flexplate. Therefore any starter bolting to my blocl (staggered holes) Should work with a 168 tooth flywheel. So this whole myth of needing a special starter is BS. My starter has plenty of power to turn the motor over, it just wasnt engaging. So all i need is a starter from the same 79 gmc 15 w/ a 6.6 that I got the flexplate from right (that is what I looked it up under at kragen).

 

[Beast388]

Beast 388 so All blocks w/ the staggered holes (which I have) use a 168 tooth flexplate. All blocks with the inline holes use a 153 tooth flexplate. Therefore any starter bolting to my blocl (staggered holes) Should work with a 168 tooth flywheel. So this whole myth of needing a special starter is BS. My starter has plenty of power to turn the motor over, it just wasnt engaging. So all i need is a starter from the same 79 gmc 15 w/ a 6.6 that I got the flexplate from right (that is what I looked it up under at kragen).

Yep, you should be able to use the factory starter that matches the flywheel diameter.

In fact, when I built my 388, I looked up a starter for a 1970 Corvette with the LS7 454. It bolted up with out a problem. I figured that a starter made to turn over a 12:1 454 could turn over my 9.46:1 388.

On my last wheelin' trip, I ruined a starter by submerging it in the mud. One of the guys there just happened to have a starter off a mid-70's Camaro in the bed of his truck that he offered.......it is still on my truck today.

 

[jagermiester]

I am going to go pick up a new starter today. Will let you guys know tommorrow. Thanks for the help

 

[u2slow]

Use a '96+ 350 starter. These are gear reduction type.

 

[diesel4me]

be aware...

There are at least TWO versions of the "staggered"bolt pattern GM starters..

I found this out the hard way..my 86 305 has the one peice rear main seal..my original 250 six starter,which SHOULD have bolted right up,would not!..then I tried several of the "spares" I had hanging around from older motors with 2 peice rear mains..they didn't bolt up,just like the other one..

It wasn't the bolt pattern,the bolts fit fine!..it was the fact the NOSE where the gear sticks out was cut out at a slightly different angle on the proper 86 starter that I luckily saved off the Van the 305 came from..this different "nose" angle "tipped"the starter slightly,plus had a spot hogged out so it wouldn't hit a "bulge" in the oilpan..which the olders motors dont have!..

(I didn't have too,but I probably could have "modified" the older ones to fit with my grinder! ..)

I didn't try,but I bet the 86 305 starter would work on the older blocks,but the old ones definately wont clear the oilpan on the 86 up motors..without butchery anyway..

Just when you thought "All Chevies are the same"! ..NOT!

 

[jagermiester]

All is good now. It must have been the amount of shims the previous owner used. Now I have a flywheel and starter (from a 79 gmc k15) w/ no shims and she starts beautifully. No grind no resistance and within a second of cranking. Lastt night was also my first test drive. I like this motor. Thanks to all for your help.