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4 link coil conversion

F-ingrob

Wheres the mud
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well i guess i dont have access to the center of gravity thread so i will try here
im doing a 4 link set up in the rear and have a couple questions
#1 I've heard about using Jeep Cherokee front springs for the rear but not sure of which 'to use
i have 6" of lift so not sure how much of a lift spring to use

#2 i heard something about ANTI SQUAT but i am not under standing it
can someone please explain it
 
Anti squat is setting up the geometry so the suspension either lifts or dives under acceleration or braking. You can set it to dive under acceleration, lift under acceleration or simply stay put. A slight bit of lift under acceleration feels more normal. Too much lift isn't a good thing, especially when hill climbing as it'll cause your front end to get light. Some guys who hill climb intentionally set their front to dive on acceleration.

If you've got a link suspension up front and out back you need to keep in mind that the two halves of the suspension will interact. They can either constructively work to lift the whole vehicle or destructively fight against each other. There is a lot involved and it is always a good idea to integrate adjustability to your suspension design so you can change things around after you've built it to fine tune the suspension system.

It'd be a good idea for you to download the 3 or 4 link calculator from Triage to play with some numbers and do some reading on pirate on what the various numbers mean. An improperly designed and constructed suspension can totally ruin the driveability and offroad performance of your vehicle so it is super important to get it right.

Some general rules of thumb for a 3 link front include making your lower front links around 40 - 45" long and keeping them as flat as possible. Your uppers should be around plus or 30% of the length of the lowers to have the driveshaft angles and thrust stay fairly consistent. If they are the same length as the lowers then the angle will remain the same. If your lower links mount at the same place as your front driveshaft starts then the length of the driveshaft will not change. You want at least 8" of vertical separation on the front differential between the lower and upper link mount locations. Keep your lower links mounted as wide as possible on the diff and slightly angle them in on the frame to help reduce the amount of roll steer you'll generate. Your upper link location and angle doesn't matter nearly as much as the lowers, put it somewhere out of the way and where it won't bind when you articulate and steer. Make sure your track bar is the same length and at the same angle as your tie rod to prevent bump steer. Vertical separation doesn't matter between the two.

Before you burn everything in you need to cycle the suspension up and down, articulate it and steer it lock to lock at each stop to make sure nothing hits anywhere. Keep a close eye on your Ackerman angle as well to make sure your steering doesn't have issues later on too. Also keep in mind that despite all your best efforts to set your geometry as best you can, you'll always be limited by where things actually fit. Do your design but don't stress if you can't build it exactly right. Just get it as close as you can.
 
Numbers in the 3 link calc and what you can fit are two different things. I wouldn't worry about numbers until you have the leafs springs and brackets out to measure correctly. You can setup a perfect 3 link number in the calc, then find out in reality things will bind. Tack brackets on first, use PVC as mock up and cycle, cycle, cycle! When you think you have cycled enough, cycle it a bunch more!
 
@Russell nailed most of the important points.
We have found the plane or angle of the trackbar and having that match the drag link are more important than the length. @secutright could explain in deep detail.
@jekquistk5 also brings up an excellent point. Don't get caught up in the numbers, get some baseline of what you want as far as performance and try and make it fit. And I'll tell ya.. Not much fits, there isn't a ton a space for much, it's all relative to how tall the truck is or how high you want it. Tire sizes etc.
call or pm me and I could break it down more if you had any questions.
Good luck! Links are awesome!
 
Thanks for all the input
I guess it not as simple as i thought
One question remains.
The coil springs, for the rear
When i get to the front i will hopefuly run coil overs pending budget
But want to run coil springs in the rear
 
So Cherokee spring work great depending.

What brand are they. We found the sodter, usually 100-150 inch lb springs are a bit soft. But the 200 ish ones work well. So super lift or sky jacker springs. One of the more mainstream lift companies.

Also capturing said spring top and bottom adds to stability
 
You can also get springs custom made for your application as well. Your spring rate is going to depend a lot on your vehicle's weight and intended purpose.
 
Remember of course custom is always better but don't guess on the weight.

Custom coils are also cheaper to get made.

Much cheaper
 
This place is where I go for ALL my coil spring needs................
http://www.eshocks.com/hyp_make.asp

Everything from motorcycle to heavy truck can be covered. Choose diameter and length, then spring rate, all at a great price. They can also do coil overs with any spring combo you want at a decent price.
 
Anti squat is setting up the geometry so the suspension either lifts or dives under acceleration or braking. You can set it to dive under acceleration, lift under acceleration or simply stay put. A slight bit of lift under acceleration feels more normal. Too much lift isn't a good thing, especially when hill climbing as it'll cause your front end to get light. Some guys who hill climb intentionally set their front to dive on acceleration.

If you've got a link suspension up front and out back you need to keep in mind that the two halves of the suspension will interact. They can either constructively work to lift the whole vehicle or destructively fight against each other. There is a lot involved and it is always a good idea to integrate adjustability to your suspension design so you can change things around after you've built it to fine tune the suspension system.

It'd be a good idea for you to download the 3 or 4 link calculator from Triage to play with some numbers and do some reading on pirate on what the various numbers mean. An improperly designed and constructed suspension can totally ruin the driveability and offroad performance of your vehicle so it is super important to get it right.

Some general rules of thumb for a 3 link front include making your lower front links around 40 - 45" long and keeping them as flat as possible. Your uppers should be around plus or 30% of the length of the lowers to have the driveshaft angles and thrust stay fairly consistent. If they are the same length as the lowers then the angle will remain the same. If your lower links mount at the same place as your front driveshaft starts then the length of the driveshaft will not change. You want at least 8" of vertical separation on the front differential between the lower and upper link mount locations. Keep your lower links mounted as wide as possible on the diff and slightly angle them in on the frame to help reduce the amount of roll steer you'll generate. Your upper link location and angle doesn't matter nearly as much as the lowers, put it somewhere out of the way and where it won't bind when you articulate and steer. Make sure your track bar is the same length and at the same angle as your tie rod to prevent bump steer. Vertical separation doesn't matter between the two.

Before you burn everything in you need to cycle the suspension up and down, articulate it and steer it lock to lock at each stop to make sure nothing hits anywhere. Keep a close eye on your Ackerman angle as well to make sure your steering doesn't have issues later on too. Also keep in mind that despite all your best efforts to set your geometry as best you can, you'll always be limited by where things actually fit. Do your design but don't stress if you can't build it exactly right. Just get it as close as you can.

Some good info to know. I did a 4-link in the rear of my truck last winter and I'm planning on doing the front next. I thinking of doing a 3-link and was wondering if different rules applied between the two.

Numbers in the 3 link calc and what you can fit are two different things. I wouldn't worry about numbers until you have the leafs springs and brackets out to measure correctly. You can setup a perfect 3 link number in the calc, then find out in reality things will bind. Tack brackets on first, use PVC as mock up and cycle, cycle, cycle! When you think you have cycled enough, cycle it a bunch more!

I found it best to have your lengths of your link, brackets position set where they fit the best. Then run the numbers in calculator and see what you have going on and make adjustment ( Compromises ) in both to come up with works.
And yes....Don't fully weld anything until everything is where it needs to go.

As for what coil springs to use....I have no clue since I run Ori struts to take all the guess work out. But I would imagine you better plan on running some kind of sway control no matter spring you run.
 
One thing I will say, if you think it's gonna be cheap, it's not.. Try hard to not build around one part of possible, like the rear spring idea, you might spend a lot more time and have a lesser outcome vs used coilovers.. It's all compromise my friend.
 
So far all the big money is in the link set up
I will definelty not go cheap to save if it means safety ir drivability is comprimized
I do tow on accation a 5000 pound load
Trialsr and side by side
But the trailer has a load leveler set up
And i already have front amd rear anti rock bars
 

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