4 or 5 point safety harnesses-necessary?

[blowedupmotor87]

I tried to do a search but, too many key words to come up with anything so, here goes: Just wondering what y'all think, is it necessary to have four or five point safety harnesses or will stock belts suffice?


Advantages by type (as I understand it):

Stock shoulder belts: streetable/street legal, shock absorbing in horizontal impact situations, more freedom of movement/comfort

4 point harnesses: greater safety in rollover situations, greater groin comfort than 5 point, hold ya in place better that stock belts

5 point harnesses: prevent "submarining in frontal type impacts


Disadvantages by type (once again, as I understand it):

Stock shoulder belts: little "holding in place" effect (best term I could think of), little ability to keep opposite side force from pulling you out in extreme roll (maybe?)

4 point harnesses: not street legal, little mobility, little horizontal impact absorbing effect, possible submarining

5 point harness: same as 4 except replace possible submarining with groin discomfort!


Well, all this leaves me stumped! Run shoulder belts only and run greater risk of rollover injury OR run harnesses being not as comfortable and run greater risk of horizontal (mostly frontal) impact injury due to loss of the absorbing effect?

Retention of stock shoulder belts in addition to 4 or 5 point harnesses sure would be goofy looking but, would be necessary for street legality? OR, have street harnesses come out?

KINDA SCARED after watching all the Moab rollover videos, and since I want to go to Moab next year, should I have harnesses? How good of a job do stock belts do keeping you in? (The one time I put a car on its roof, I was hit in the side and my dumb self, I had no seat belt on so, no personal experience of seatbelt effectiveness). BEAR IN MIND, I plan on going doorless, if that has a bearing in recommendations.

Eventual approximate trail truck set up:
4" lift, 1tons w/ f/r lockers, 37's (possibly larger tires later), rollcage, 4spd, doubler. A pretty good setup but, I won't be doing totally hardcore trails, not for a good while at least.

Anyways, I apologize for the overly long post but, I've got so many thoughts running around in my head about this! So, safety harnesses necessary? Opinions please, thanks everybody!

 

[cbbr]

After flopping mine, I would not want to be in Moab without 4 points. At least.

 

[70jimmy]

I have 5 points in mine and like the ability to decide how many points I have hooked up. The jimmy originally came with lap belts only.

Street: I wear two points

Trail: Anything from 2 points to 5

I can tell you that on some of the descents on Hells and fins n things I was resting against the 4 points with my body and a normal stock shoulder strap typically lets you go forward some before the mechanism locks in place.

On hells where the rollover occurred, all 5 points in use.

The 5 points are nice for strapping kids in and certain cargo that you don't want to go anywhere.

 

[FOR MUD]

Read this, then decide. Remember you never plan on rolling or get in an accident. Just ask his guys father.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=618199

 

[gmc4cw]

I have a 5 point in my truck and the stock belt. I disagree with the crotch belt causing groin discomfort. If you do not have a crotch belt or do not hook it up the shoulder belts can be pulled to tight causing the lap belts to ride up.

I do not always run the shoulder belts but I always run with the crotch belt hooked up. I have a cam lock setup so I can clip in the shoulder belts without unhooking the other belts. Thats a huge advantage over stopping and putting the puzzle of hooks together.

I flipped mine recently and was only wearing the lap and crotch belts. it held me upside and tight to the seat. If I had thought that there was a chance of going over I would have had the shoulder belts on. but I was taking it easy.

 

[Hossbaby50]

I only have racing lap belts in my K5 but I am upgrading the seats to racing seat and am also going to upgrade to 5pts because it sees mainly trail use. I have flopped the truck twice and been in a rollover (in another truck) with only laps on and it left alot to be desired.

Harley

 

[Element]

I drove a friend's car across the country (long story) with race seats and a 5-point harness. He had 6-points in a box in the back to be installed once I got out there.

After the first hard stop in that car, I got out, yanked the 5-point out (after coughing and gagging a bit), and put the 6 point in. It's a much more ergonomically safe design for males than the 5-points.

 

[dremu]

I drove a friend's car across the country (long story) with race seats and a 5-point harness. He had 6-points in a box in the back to be installed once I got out there.

After the first hard stop in that car, I got out, yanked the 5-point out (after coughing and gagging a bit), and put the 6 point in. It's a much more ergonomically safe design for males than the 5-points.

Well, I did a little Googling and I still don't get it. How is a six-point different than a five? Two sub straps, but unless you're Ron Jeremy I don't see how they work?

-- A

 

[Element]

Well, I did a little Googling and I still don't get it. How is a six-point different than a five? Two sub straps, but unless you're Ron Jeremy I don't see how they work?

-- A

With 6 points, the straps go over the upper thigh, rather than over more sensitive areas.

 

[dremu]

I drove a friend's car across the country (long story) with race seats and a 5-point harness. He had 6-points in a box in the back to be installed once I got out there.

After the first hard stop in that car, I got out, yanked the 5-point out (after coughing and gagging a bit), and put the 6 point in. It's a much more ergonomically safe design for males than the 5-points.

With 6 points, the straps go over the upper thigh, rather than over more sensitive areas.

Ah, they go around the *outside* of the legs? (After injuring myself on a pair of tight jeans just after my vasectomy, I'm nervous about ANYTHING down there, ya know? )

-- A

 

[cybrfire]

are 4 and 5 points really not street legal??? Never seen that reg. anywhere. Probably not legal as they aren't factory installed sort of thing.

 

[Element]

Ah, they go around the *outside* of the legs? (After injuring myself on a pair of tight jeans just after my vasectomy, I'm nervous about ANYTHING down there, ya know? )

-- A

The ones in the car I drove came up between the legs and went over the thigh about 2" down from anything important.

 

[Hogback Fabrication]

I don't think the 5th (crotch) harness is necessary for a 4 wheeling truck. Its primarily there to keep you from sliding under the other 4 points in a really hard frontal impact.

As long as you make sure the shoulder belts are primarily tightened by the lap belt and the the lap belt is where it should be you'll be fine. The 5th point doesn't hurt but I don't run mine and don't plan to.

 

[RustBuket]

I think some of the legality issues would come from not being able to shoulder check properly and see behind you in reverse due to it holding you in so tightly.

 

[blowedupmotor87]

I think some of the legality issues would come from not being able to shoulder check properly and see behind you in reverse due to it holding you in so tightly.

That's an interesting point, it's gotta be a pain to look back in a harness. Seems like one needs to do that a good bit wheeling. But, I guess the inconvenience would be outweighed by the safety.

Here's another question for y'all: what about high speed horizontal plane impacts in street driving? (Like frontal impacts), doesn't the "give" of the stock seatbelt help absorb some of the suddeness of the impact, or am I way off? (Does the movement of the stock belt have any impact absorption value?) My paranoia: Thinking about Dale Earnhardt, didn't his neck get snapped due to his head being the only part of his body that continued forward (his body having been restrained by the harness)? Would the movement of the stock belt prevent a similar (albeit much lower speed) injury? OR, is this concern completely illegitimate due to the fact that DD speeds are so much slower? Sorry to ask so many questions but, safety seems like a pretty big issue! Thanks!

 

[RGV72BLAZER]

Read this, then decide. Remember you never plan on rolling or get in an accident. Just ask his guys father.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=618199

As soon as I read the title of this thread, I thought of this link. Don't risk your safety, especially if you're starting to wheel more difficult trails...if you really don't care, at least care for the safety of your passengers. At least a 4 pt. I'm going 5 pt.

 

[walla2k5]

Years back I was in a rollover,wearing only a lap belt and caught the ****er in the ribs. Didn't break them, but it sure felt like it. I use a 4point in my k5....

 

[blowedupmotor87]

As soon as I read the title of this thread, I thought of this link. Don't risk your safety, especially if you're starting to wheel more difficult trails...if you really don't care, at least care for the safety of your passengers. At least a 4 pt. I'm going 5 pt.

I want to make sure I figure out a good setup for the truck. It will be a more capable wheeler than my previous vehicles, built for harder trails than what I'm used to so, I want to make sure my passengers and I will be safe. It will be driven on the street fairly often too, so that has to be taken into account. Probably going to have the top and doors off a lot too so, I know I'll definitely need a rollcage, I just don't know much of anything about harnesses pros and cons and the necessity for them, hence the post. Thanks!

 

[RGV72BLAZER]

You're welcome, but for me it all comes down to: Pro-A 4-5 pt harness will do much more to ensure safety than just a lap belt. And if there legality issues, just strap in the lap belts & tell 'em it's back to stock. I think another issue that distributors say they're not DOT legal is because of the small variations on how they're made. I'm just looking for a NHRA approval & I'll be satisfied.

 

[79BRUISER]

Before my experience this morning, I would have said stock belts are fine fo light to medium trails.

After, being a passenger in a cj5 sliding 50 feet down a rock trail on the passenger side. I am sooooo greatful my buddy installed the 4 points last night

Could have been alot worse.

And you might reconsider the no door option. At least tube doors would have kept me from ginding my right side on the rocks. Thank god for the rollcage and 4 points.

Damn Jeeps!!!

Thats me on the left.
Bruiser