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400 sbc

slyguy_22 said:
Not to burst ur bubble or anything but i had the motor built by a motor builder that was building motors for 20 some years before you even started. for bout 40years now. he built our race motor for the mustang (410 sbf that runs 9.60@ 139mph.) and we havent had to rebuild it yet. built 2 years ago. my motor was built 4 years ago (and i just put a new head gasket in it last weekend, motor looks like brand new inside!?). and by the way its not running lean. Now im not sayin i know more than you bout motors. im simply stating that my motor guy is top notch. builds some of the top motors here on the east coast for drag and performance. he knows his stuff. period. if im wrong and my motor blows ill let u know.
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What was the reason for the gasket replacement ?


Having a engine built by a pro is great but the pro usually does not have any enforcement on how the engine is ran once it is in the owners hands.
I think the point is that a fuel systen that was designed for fifty to a hundred cubes less is surely not supplying all that is required of that larger air pump. I would be willing to bet that if the engine was put under load and had to do some real work that it would be in a really lean condition - no doubt . There is a difference in lugging an engine around due to lack of gear and really running an engine in normal conditions.
Disclaimer : not trying to be a horses a$$ - just trying to get a point across so that good info comes out of this thread.


Tom
 
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slyguy_22 said:
Not to burst ur bubble or anything but i had the motor built by a motor builder that was building motors for 20 some years before you even started. for bout 40years now. he built our race motor for the mustang (410 sbf that runs 9.60@ 139mph.) and we havent had to rebuild it yet. built 2 years ago. my motor was built 4 years ago (and i just put a new head gasket in it last weekend, motor looks like brand new inside!?). and by the way its not running lean. Now im not sayin i know more than you bout motors. im simply stating that my motor guy is top notch. builds some of the top motors here on the east coast for drag and performance. he knows his stuff. period. if im wrong and my motor blows ill let u know.
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No one is interested in hearing about some guy.........

Thinking that it's done right because it hasn't blown up isn't a good asnwer. Have you checked your plugs? What color are they? Have you seen your pistons and rings inside the engine lately (no obviously)? Since you like bringing up the fact that you pay pros to do stuff, did you ever take the completed setup to a dyno tune pro and have them actually put the vehicle on a dyno and sniffer to actually read mixture under load?
 
have a question about torque. i know what to do for mid to high rpm hp, but what are some things that would yield lower rpm torque? i know the carb/tb spacers and stuff like that, but besides intake manifolds, what contributes? longer intake runners are one thing right?
 
87 Blue Beast said:
have a question about torque. i know what to do for mid to high rpm hp, but what are some things that would yield lower rpm torque? i know the carb/tb spacers and stuff like that, but besides intake manifolds, what contributes? longer intake runners are one thing right?
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Yes , intake runners play a big part in where a motor makes torque but you indicated that you did not want to discuss manifolds ???
Cylinder pressure , cam timing ( valve ) , port velocity are some areas that you might want to research for torque talk as well .
 
i meant that i already know of a couple manifolds that produce crisp throttle responce and low end power. woundering what other parts that i should pay attention to. sorry, i wasnt specific enough. about port velocity, what kinda numbers are better for torque? keep in mind i dont want all low end power, just alittle low end torque, the flatter curve the better (obviously), but i still wanna be able to make mid to upper end hop. im thinking about edelbrocks performer rpm roller cam (1500-6500 range), which is supposed to me matched to the rpm performer manifold with the same rpm range. says makes good low end power but still makes good higher hp
 
Over all you are talking about a motor that is "mainly considered low end power" meaning under 5,500 RPM's . I understand you are not looking for a motor that acts like a N/A diesel that is nothing but low end grunt but becareful when discussing top end power. Most engine oriented folks will think you are intersted in making real power in the upper range.

As far as numbers about velocity go that is a big ole can of worms that books have been dedicated to just that topic. There are soooo many variables to consider before you put your money down on a specific style of heads. More than likely you will want to stick at or under 180 on the intake port. Do some searching on heads in that range and arm your self with some good info when you go to purchase.

HTH's Tom
 
see, theres my problem. people are telling me that i will need like 195, 200, or 205, maybe even 210 intakes to make the power that i wish to make. but wont runners that big make power in the upper rpm's rather than lower? btw, i wouldnt mind making upper end power, i just dont want it to have "no balls" or lugging power in the lower rpms. i guess the only real answer ill get is when i start plugging info into desktop dyno
 
It's hard to tell someone what to get when you don't know what they consider powerful. Some folks are impressed as hell with a stock TBI 454 while the rest of us know that it did what it was built to do but it was not making good use of those cubes over 2,000 RPM's .

My opinion ( and there are so many more folks that are more knowledgeable on the subject than I ) would not think you would be happy with a head in the 220 range , or close to it , since you have expressed concern for crisp throttle response at low rev's . Now , if you wanted a motor that started making power around 2,200 than those heads might be what you want.
Just to throw another wrench your way , consider this . A cylinder head that is advertised to make great mid range power might not be considered weak at lower RPM's - it just makes impressive numbers higher up the scale and advertising takes advantage of the bigger numbers when in reality it might be possible to make good power in a much wider RPM range .

For the most part those numbers are considered mid range power makers . A higher RPM capable head will have much bigger spec's .

Tom
 
so if i keep the heads around, but no more than 200 ish with a good cam and intake setup, im guessing ill be satisfied. like i said, i should be getting my deck top dyno any day now so ill plug the parts into it and see what it says
 
For a truck torque build, stick to small intake runners. No larger than 180CC. The Vortecs are 163-170CC. Keep the cam small. Think 268-ish on a 406. The power is all in the heads. I would go with Brodix IK180's or AFR 180's if you can afford them. The Vortecs are a good choice, but the little things will add up quickly, making them not as much of a bargain in many cases. Edelbrock cams suck. Call Comp, Crane, or Bullet and get a recommendation. On a budget, I would go with the IK 180's, a performer or EPS manifold, and a Comp 4x4 cam (or similar). The heads are going to be the difference between making 300HP/400TQ or 400HP/ 500TQ, all things being equal.

Going bigger with the Heads, Cam, etc, is only going to kill torque and make your engine feel weaker. Spending money on a Roller Cam is a waste unless you've already got the best heads you can buy.

A set of fully CNC'd AFR Eliminator heads is going to be worth more than a hundred HP over unported factory smogger heads.
 
im trying to do as much research on build ups as i can, but i keep comming back drool at this article. this 406 made 525ft lbs at 3500rpms :eek1: and 428hp at 5000rpms. thats exactally, actuall alittle more than i am hoping for. the best part is that they didnt even really use any crazy high performance parts. just stock cast vortec heads, 9.5:1 cr, roller cam, and edelbrock performer intake. how the hell did it make that much torque? thats amazing :bow: . if i did somewhat the same setup with better aftermarket heads and a better cam, theres no telling what kinda power it could make :D

heres the link... http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/148_0306_chevrolet_406_big_block_torque/index.html
 
bowtiepower00 said:
For a truck torque build, stick to small intake runners. No larger than 180CC. The Vortecs are 163-170CC. Keep the cam small. Think 268-ish on a 406. The power is all in the heads. I would go with Brodix IK180's or AFR 180's if you can afford them. The Vortecs are a good choice, but the little things will add up quickly, making them not as much of a bargain in many cases. Edelbrock cams suck. Call Comp, Crane, or Bullet and get a recommendation. On a budget, I would go with the IK 180's, a performer or EPS manifold, and a Comp 4x4 cam (or similar). The heads are going to be the difference between making 300HP/400TQ or 400HP/ 500TQ, all things being equal.

Going bigger with the Heads, Cam, etc, is only going to kill torque and make your engine feel weaker. Spending money on a Roller Cam is a waste unless you've already got the best heads you can buy.

A set of fully CNC'd AFR Eliminator heads is going to be worth more than a hundred HP over unported factory smogger heads.
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why do you say edelbrock cams suck? ive never heard anything bad about em..?
 
Well , I don't know what you'll be happy with. Before I build or get involved with parts selection on engines for folks around here I will have several very long talks with them to find out what thier expectations are. It takes a little insight to figure out if they are chasing what they have read in the last few issues of Hot Rod Magazine or following what they have heard others do .

Like the old saying " One mans junk is another mans treasure " the same applies to what folks think of as powerful. My buddy thought his SBC 350 pulled real well in his Suburban until he drove my Cummins powered truck. Now I realize that is not a fair comparison but the point is a seat of the pants feel of powerful is different for different folks .

When you get motor advice talk about the entire engine package from induction to oil pan and pulley's to flywheel/flex plate - it all matters . Don't change something mid stream because it might effect every part selected up to that point.

My advice is talk with more KNOWLEDGEABLE folks ( like 4X4HIGH and others ) about what heads and there power range for your application.

HTH's Tom
 
Man I type slow !
The advice up above that Bowtie00 offered is good stuff !
Take it in and listen .

Tom
 
You don't want neccessarely "lots of low end torque" or "good high end horsepower..."

What you want to aim for most importantly is a nice power curve that starts in at 2K or so and gives you good power up into the 5,500rpm range.

I'd go with a set of 195cc heads, a cam no bigger than about 480" lift, and a performer intake. This will give you a good power curve, my 406 laid down a great power curve down on the dyno. I've already built the motor you are wanting to put together.... and these are the things I would do if I was putting it together today. My two mistakes were using stock 400 heads and going with a cam that makes 454"/454" lift on both valves. It idles with a little bit of chop to it and has nice throttle response, but with AFR heads and a 480" cam, it would have all of the low end torque I have now plus a chunk more, have great midrange, and just flat rip in the 4,000-6,000RPM range.
 
87 Blue Beast said:
im trying to do as much research on build ups as i can, but i keep comming back drool at this article. this 406 made 525ft lbs at 3500rpms :eek1: and 428hp at 5000rpms. thats exactally, actuall alittle more than i am hoping for. the best part is that they didnt even really use any crazy high performance parts. just stock cast vortec heads, 9.5:1 cr, roller cam, and edelbrock performer intake. how the hell did it make that much torque? thats amazing :bow: . if i did somewhat the same setup with better aftermarket heads and a better cam, theres no telling what kinda power it could make :D

heres the link... http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/148_0306_chevrolet_406_big_block_torque/index.html
Click to expand...

Here is the last paragraph of that article.....

On the drive home from the dyno, we couldn't help but think about how awesome this motor turned out to be. It made 525 lb-ft of torque and 428 hp all under 5,500 rpm. The fact that we were able to do it for under $6,000 was even better. Had we scrimped and used a few less-expensive parts and been willing to sacrifice a little horsepower and torque, this same motor could be reproduced for under $4,500


So..... that power DOES cost money. How much do you honestly think you save by getting a "free" block?

Have you even started adding up the costs of the parts you want/need to see where your budget is yet? Again, I'm not trying to be a tool....just trying to inject a little reality and caution before the spending starts.


:usaflag:
 
here is my specs.. engine runs awsome!! no issues. you can hear it on the video

new balanced 406
decked.
430 hp @ 5000
525 lbft torque @ 3900
port and polish
aluminum heads 2.02 1.60 64cc chambers. drilled for steam holes
5 angle grind,ss swirl valves
aluminum roller rockers 1.6:1
poly locks & stud girdles
holly dominator intake
edelbrock proformer 750 cfm
speed pro coated dished pistons
comp cam 516 525 234 242 adv @ .050 110 lobe sep
speed pro hyd lifters
scat forged crank
tru roller timing
5.7 h beam rods
molly push rods hardened guideplates 7/16 studs
msd pro billit hei
long tube headers
felpro mls gaskets
arp fastners

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3Id2YxWj6Y
 
it just amazes me that im gona have to take my motor and have it dyno tuned to satisfy you guys. the spark plugs by the way look great for being in a motor for over a year. ya want me to take pics of them? I think you guys got a way from the point. 87blue beast asked about a budget build 400. now if you guys out there wana spend 7500-10000K yeah afr heads and com cams are great. hell you can spend over 3500K in just a lower end. thats not what he asked. Budget built 406 is what i got im just telling him what works for me. When i get a chance ill get it on the dyno. im just wondering what your gona have to say when it comes out looking good? If im wrong ill tell ya. I know that i could unlock alot more power with new heads tbi and chip. Maybe down the road. anyhow ill take him for a burn this weekend and see what he has to think bout it. then he can tell you guys my trucks crap and you all can plaster me with hate mail.:haha:
 
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