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454 losing oil pressure

Bent77 said:
Did it suck that gasket in or was the debris in the filter old
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the debris in the filter are consistent with the material on the oil pan gasket therefore I believe they were sucked up after the pickup fell off.

mrk5 said:
Is it possible to solder the pickup tube to the pump? Or braze it?
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Yes I've read about brazing or tig the pickup however most use a tack or two.

sweetk30 said:
people have been tack welding them for years .

some aftermarket even has a bolt on bracket option . and some pickup tubes also come with a tab welded on them to go to the pump body bolt .
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I'm planning on tacking it.


Ordered the pump, couple different pickups, new pan, pan gasket and dipstick. Summit confirmed I'll have it tomorrow since I paid for overnight service.
 
Oh and I should mention it was fun getting the pan off. Besides the pan itself being glued on I also had to remove the ORD cross-member which was fun with a boxed frame. I loosened the TH400 HD bell housing cover (newer aluminum version) however the exhaust crossover holds it in place so I was barely able to wedge the pan out. Later today I'll drop the belly pan, remove the exhaust (from manifolds back) and then the bell housing will come loose so I can reinstall the pan. At least I can re-wrap the crossover tube since the heat wrap is shredded in a couple places.
 
In the "How to Hot Rod Your BBC" book I have,they claim brazing the pickup tube is the correct way to go,welding can result in a "iffy" penetration to the cast iron pump housing due to the fact you must use fairly low amps to avoid burning thru the pickup tube..plus the braze flows in all around and makes a 100% seal..often the installation of the pickup tube results in it being deformed slightly where it goes on the pump casting and air can get sucked in there..

I never liked the "press in" pickup tubes,I have a hard time trusting ones I've installed but didn't braze on,for fears I'd warp the pump housing ..seen more than one engine get ruined when the pickup tube came out or the screen was plugged with RTV or carbon deposits..
RTV often migrates to places it should never go and cause troubles..
 
That was my thinking, that brazing would be better. I just never hear/see people talk about brazing anymore it seems like. Maybe because having a MIG welder at home is more common that it used to be 30 years ago.
 
Skunk I was wondering is the gasket from the pan got sucked of the rail and into the open pump due to a crank case vent occurrence
 
mrk5 said:
That was my thinking, that brazing would be better. I just never hear/see people talk about brazing anymore it seems like. Maybe because having a MIG welder at home is more common that it used to be 30 years ago.
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Because you weld steel. You braze copper, brass and other non-ferrous metals.
As a general rule**

Also the rise of the mig machine has put an end to the gas weld.



As a side note I attended Gene Winfield's class a few years ago.
He was talking about gas welding and a student asked him about mig welding.

He just replied. Why do I need that when I can gas weld.
Lol. His simple answer made me chuckle.

He later on admitted to having GMAW in his shop.
 
mrk5 said:
That was my thinking, that brazing would be better. I just never hear/see people talk about brazing anymore it seems like. Maybe because having a MIG welder at home is more common that it used to be 30 years ago.
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Brazing is becoming a lost art in ways..but it is the "correct" method to repair cast iron,according to most of the welding books and old welders I've known..
I've seen manual transmissions that had the mounting ears cracked off,and pieces blown out after gears failed,be brazed back together and run just as hard as before,that never showed any signs of failing..the brass goes into the pores of the cast iron and it has about 3500 psi breaking strength...
I've seen some tube framed race cars that were brazed together instead of welded too..back in the days before MIG welders became affordable ,brazing was a common method of repairing fenders and body panels too..my first experience with torches after buying a set of the "pouch" torches was brazing my '72 K5's new rocker panels on ,and replacing the rotted sections of floors..
I brazed some exhaust manifolds that had rotted thru or cracked too,that a welder would have just blown bigger holes in,or burned thru..
 
beags86 said:
Because you weld steel. You braze copper, brass and other non-ferrous metals.
As a general rule**

Also the rise of the mig machine has put an end to the gas weld.



As a side note I attended Gene Winfield's class a few years ago.
He was talking about gas welding and a student asked him about mig welding.

He just replied. Why do I need that when I can gas weld.
Lol. His simple answer made me chuckle.

He later on admitted to having GMAW in his shop.
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I think that's your round about way of saying Bob and I have an old fashioned idea..... :thinking:


:haha:
 
Bent77 said:
Skunk I was wondering is the gasket from the pan got sucked of the rail and into the open pump due to a crank case vent occurrence
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doubt it, the damn cork gasket is simply falling apart. It's a POS and I should have used a rubber one piece the first time around.
 
mrk5 said:
With all the gasket material choices these days, I don't think I could ever use cork. It's like the Subway of the gasket materials. (a little cross thread reference there.:D )
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haha yes sir. Pure crap!
 
Fel-Pro cork/rubber valve cover,oil pan gaskets aren't that bad...

But I'd stay away from Victor or McCord and Mr. Gasket especially...those suck!..lucky if you can install them without having them break or fall apart,and they crumble shortly after that..
 
mrk5 said:
I think that's your round about way of saying Bob and I have an old fashioned idea..... :thinking:


:haha:
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I know how to gas weld.

But more or less it's just become outdated is all.

The correct way to weld cast is nickel rod.
 
diesel4me said:
Fel-Pro cork/rubber valve cover,oil pan gaskets aren't that bad...
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that’s what I used on this one but after installing the rubber/metal version on my gen 6 I don’t see the point of using a cork gasket. I will however note the 3 piece cork/rubber one did not leak.
 
Yes,nickel rod is the right stuff for welding cast iron..but it takes considerable skill (and luck) to weld it with success,and not have it crack again during the cooling process--or later on..
It would be a stretch to weld a pickup tube to an oil pump with an arc welder ,or even MIG with nickel rod or wire..the tube would vaporize before the casting was hot enough to weld with good penetration..

Brazing is fairly easy to learn,its more like soldering, and is plenty strong for most applications..

Skunked :--the pure cork gaskets suck,the rubber/corb combo Fel Pro's usually stay together well.
I could only get a Fel-Pro cork/rubber oil pan gasket for my 6.2,they do not make a one piece rubber one far as I could tell..
I still haven't used it ,almost 2 years later--the oil pan needs to be replaced now ,since about 2010..I just keep plugging the holes and smother them with Mar-Glass,so far its been working..
 
Their is a right and wrong process for welding cast. It's not black magic. Follow the process and it will be fine.
 
i know how to sweet copper ( pre-tin solder crap ) / i can braze / some basic tig / mig / stick ( bit rusty ) . . . love all of it . nothing says fun like make your own parts . :saweet:
 
Ever wonder how a blind guy knows when to quit.........?

All this discussion about gas vs stick vs MIG vs TIG, vs brazing, overlooks one idea.
Using TIG with a brass rod.
Its technically TIG brazing, but its often called welding. It gives the forgiveness of brass braze with the precision and heat control of TIG. Its done more often with brass parts, but cast and steel figure in too.

Just so you folk won't think I've finally lost it, I searched around and found a few links: https://www.millerwelds.com/resources/article-library/tig-brazing-with-silicon-bronze
https://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/tig-welding-brazing.html
https://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/tig-welding-brazing.html

I have been seeing mention of brazing the pickup tubes on most of my life, so it must work pretty good. I know that was before TIG, but still........
Heck, if all else fails, and there is enough metal and room, just drill, tap and put in a couple of set screws with red loctite.
 
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