454 MPFI Project Update 01

[dave w]

I got the engine running ... the idle RPM's were very very high ... about 2500 RPM with the EST unplugged and about 4500 RPM with the EST Plugged in. I did some data logging with DataMaster. Anyway here is my low $$$ engine stand! I'll get a radiator soon ... then I can run the engine for more than a minute. I'll get the alternator wired in to charge to engine stand battery.

dave w

 

[ryoken]

I run BB's just sitting on a tire at work all the time for the boats... fun stuff...


subscribed...

 

[dyeager535]

What's the story on that alternator bracket?

 

[dave w]

What's the story on that alternator bracket?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BBC-...ptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

 

[mnstrburbon]

I have a carbed BB pushing 400 hp and would like to do the same swap. I have a TBI BB i was going to use but the vortec should help not hurt the hp.
What all is needed in the swap and what is the best year make to look for. i read you like van TBI same with this set up?
i found you're other thread thanks for all the info.

 

[dave w]

What all is needed in the swap and what is the best year make to look for.

I found most of the parts I'm using at a Swap Meet, so I don't know what years will interchange with the parts I have. I was taking a HUGE chance that I would be able to get everything working. I've spent many hours researching the many details to get to where I am with the project so far. I hope to get the engine in a vehicle soon. I am not using any emissions equipment, except a PCV. I am not using a Knock Sensor, or Vehicle Speed Sensor at this time.

The engine is nothing special, it's a plain jane Gen IV from a mid 80's GMC pickup with a stock cam and an unknown number of miles.

The Hardware List of parts I'm using:

1999 Suburban 454 Intake Manifold (Upper and Lower)
1999 Suburban 454 Fuel Rail (OEM Injectors)
1999 Suburban 454 Throttle Body

1991 Camaro 350 TPI Computer (I programmed the PROM myself)
1991 Camaro 350 TPI Wiring Harness (I've made changes to some of the connectors, Fuel Rail, IAC and TPS)
1991 Camaro 350 TPI Distributor (I need to make some custom spark plug wires)
1991 Camaro 350 TPI Sensors (MAP, CTS, MAT)

dave w

 

[mnstrburbon]

Thanks for the info. would you recommend this over a tbi. The tbi BB i have is my old tow rig an 88 new body style, torque seemed good but no top end rpm's. Will the vortec rev out better and provide better fuel economy.

 

[dave w]

Would you recommend this over a tbi? Will the vortec rev out better and provide better fuel economy?

I think your questions about the differences between TBI and TPI are good questions.

TBI is less expensive than TPI.
TPI engines had different camshafts for better performance.
Vortec engines have better flowing heads, so Vortec engines have better performance.

I would recommend the TPI / Vortec for a 454 if you have both the budget, and PROM programming experience.

If the camshaft and fuel flows were the same for TBI and TPI, I think the rev's would be about the same. The factory 454 TBI has lower fuel flow than factory TPI engines?

If you have experience with PROM programming, then programming for mileage with TBI or TPI would be the same.

[FONT=&quot]The factory 454 Vortec engine has sequential fire fuel injection.[/FONT]

My 454 has batch fire fuel injection.

Sequential fuel injection is more expensive.

The Edelbrock Big Block Pro-Flow2 EFI system (part #35500) is sequential fire fuel injection, and is priced at about $3000.

My 454 engine, including all my home brew mix of EFI parts is less than half the price of the Edelbrock Pro-Flow2 EFI system. If you figure in all the time I've spent on my home brew mix of EFI parts, then the Edelbrock system is a BARGIN!

dave w

 

[mnstrburbon]

Thanks for all the input this will be my first efi project.That said i am eager to jump into the efi world i understand the mechanics and most of the electronics behind it.
What about a stand alone hooked up to a vortec efi system like a Haltech i can pick one up for 6 or 8 hundred new. I also have access to a dyno and the owner of the dyno tunes haltech's all day long on the Subaru's they build.
The vortec intake will bolt on a non vortec head yes or no. i have been trying to find and read about it and it sounds like a yes.

 

[dave w]

What about a stand alone hooked up to a vortec efi system like a Haltech? The vortec intake will bolt on a non vortec head yes or no?

YES, the 1999 Suburban Vortec intake I used bolted to the older 454 Gen IV heads!

I have not used any of the stand alone EFI systems like Haltech.

I like several things about the factory EFI systems:
1. Information, parts, and people who have adapted / modified factory EFI systems is very abundant and easy to find on the Internet!

2. I can find spare parts for factory EFI systems at most any junk yard, and every parts store (large chain or mom / pop size parts store).

3. For my home brewed 454 EFI, every part that I have used is a factory part, expect the PROM chip.

4. Having a modified factory EFI system still allows me to use the factory diagnostic tools and equipment.

5. I think the prices I paid for the used factory EFI systems / parts are very affordable for my budget!

If I was to build another home brewed EFI Vortec 454, I would consider a different ECM or to be more correct Powertrain Control Modules PCM's. 1993 - 1995 GM Suburbans and Pickups used a computer that would control either a 4L60E or 4L80E automatic overdrive transmission. I need to do more research, but some of the 1993 - 1995 PCM's were used for 4.3 Chevy CPI / Vortec engines. I wonder what can be done with this generation PCM and port fuel injection?

dave w

 

[WOOS1]

That is a going to be a sweet set-up. Gives me hope for the 454 that I have sitting in my garage. I wish I could put it on a stand like that. My neighbors would love me even more!

 

[dave w]

I have decided to sell the 454 MPFI engine. I will be at the Hot August Nights (Reno NV) Swap Meet in early August. I am open to suggestions as to what I should ask for the complete engine and EFI set up? I know the economy is weak, and 454's don't sell for the "Big Bucks". Just looking for some realistic ideas for an asking price.

 

[77crewcab]

Just out of curriosity what would you consider selling the fuel injection setup for?

 

[dave w]

I have spent about $1200 on the 454 fuel injection parts (Intake, Computer, Wiring Harness, Sensors, ect). I don't think I got a real good deal on the 1999 Suburban 454 Vortec intake and fuel rail parts. I might have been able to get a good used 454 Vortec engine for about $1200 when gas was +$4.00 a gallon last year.

What I have found, is a nearly identical TPI harness and ECM at Larry's Electric http://www.larryselectricsite.com/TPIKIT.html

I programmed the PROM myself for a 454.

If I was going to build another MPFI 454 ... I would start with a good used Vortec 454 ... remove most of the 454 Vortec EFI electronics, and use the Universal TPI Harness from Larry's Electric.

I'm commited to selling the 454 MPFI engine at the Reno Nevada Swap Meet (August 6,7, & 8). I'm currentlly thinking my asking price is going to be about $1800, for complete engine and MPFI system.


If I did sell just the Fuel Injection parts, I would need some old school carburetor, intake, and distributor parts ... so I could sell the engine as a running engine.
dave w

 

[77crewcab]

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