454 tbi questions

[big_truxx]

I may be getting an 89 crew cab dually w/ 454 tbi . its a trade from my dad for my crew dually. only prob is the 454 probably needs a rebuild. brother ran it hot on the highway for about 10 min. then it got hot again when we tried to do emergency repairs to limp it home since the belt broke in the first place. dad says it smokes (I still have not started it yet) and I am thinking @ 198k maybe it is time for a complete rebuild. I was wondering how much power will the stock tbi setup work for? also would it work w/o all the sensors like o2 etc? I was thinking about "rodding" this truck when i rebuild it and port heads w/ big valves, add headers and free flowing exhaust and probably cam. depending on how much power i want when i get to it.

 

[camiswelding]

Ihave this same truck.... I just did what you want to do ....
do you have smog?
if not the sky is the limit depending on your wallet (including a 502 conversion @ about 6500)
IF you have smog you are limited in what you can do
I just dumped 3k into a careful engine redo 454 tbi.... mild mods... balanced... edelbrock performer smog legal manifold... all the good stuff... cali legal....

big blocks can get expensive... fast...(sounds like you have blown head gaskets btw.... common for big blocks that have been overheated)

and yes you need plenty of cooling... I now have a 5 row radiator with oversive factory fan and fan clutch and an additional electric fan, and a hi-po water pump, distilled water with a wetting agent... and Im planning some hood louvers to let heat out of the engine compartment.... and anything else I can figure out....


The tbi wants the factory sensors... without them it will throw error codes and the truck will run like poo poo

cam

 

[big_truxx]

Well I didn't know they still had the smog pump in vehicles.. I was thinking I may end up removing tbi and putting on a carb... which means I need to research cool ones like predator and the like. I do not want anything thinking about anything besides how much power its going to make LOL Would like nice headers w/ H-pipe (maybe)and some nice 3" side pipes! I kinda think to keep the tbi it would be a sacrafice to power. stock form yes better but as I do not know anythign about them... and do not like computers... yeah I am thinking about tossing the tbi in favor of carb! And yes I will more than likely try to change head gaskets when I get this truck as my own. they are not that expensive nor is any of the others I must change in order to change them, so it is feasable to test. That is assuming it is a good guess they are gone. Which was my 1st guess @198k and ran hot... now smoking... head gasket just pops up there. LOL but I need to actually start it and actuallt sit down with my dad and do a trade.

 

[big_truxx]

Also does the 89 tbi 454 use the in tank fuel pump? My dad thought so but he's not too mechanically inclined...

 

[1-ton]

All fuel injected engines use the in-tank fuel pump, unless maybe you own a 1962 split-window Stingray with a mechanicly fuel injected 327.

 

[big_truxx]

unless maybe you own a 1962 split-window Stingray with a mechanicly fuel injected 327.

what he said

If I end up building the motor some it may get changed to carb setup anyway. Also I was thinking maybe in the end putting a 32-40 gal burb/k5 tank in it instead of twin 20's so I could easily do away w/ in tank pumps easily.

 

[big_truxx]

what kind of sensors does a tbi setup run?

 

[fortcollinsram]

DUDE TBI's need all the sensors. If you want to get rid of all that stuff, put a carb on it. How much power do you want out of the motor? The Stock TBI on a 454 is limited to about 400hp or so depending on mods. You can put the highest flow race heads on there and it will be limited to the 660cfm of the TB. On my BBC,I have worked over "156" heads that were milled .015", a GMPP truck torque cam amd FT pistons and it is at the ragged edge of the stock computer and fuel injection. I do have a VRFPR to bump up fuel pressure at WOT that helped alot. Other than that, you need to analyze you intentions. If you want a 500+hp BBC, loose the TBI and go multi-port or carb. TBI is nice and simple and reliable but has its limits


TBI needs:

o2 sensor
MAP sensor
TPS sensor
CTS sensor
ESC module
oil press. sensor <-- can be easily bypassed
IAC motor
knock sensor

 

[big_truxx]

currently it has the tbi setup. I was just curious what sensors it had that it needed in order to function. do not know anything about tbi other than it's better than a carb for near stock engines. I had thought about rebuilding the whole engine in the future. May just be head gaskets that it needs I am not sure yet. If I do rebuild the whole engine I may as well get some power out of it. I want very badly a set of nice headers and dual 3" exhaust. Was toying with the idea of sidepipes as they are rare these days and imho cool and pleasantly different. And with headers and nice exhaust I would need to ditch the tbi anyway... wouldn't be that bad but in a way I may be able to do some minor things and be happy with the tbi. I just do not know what I would want to do to boostthe power on it with tbi. Since I want to run headers more than likely tbi will be coming out. But not till I can afford it.

 

[Thunder]

Dont get rid of the TBI system just cuz you want to run headers.You can run headers with TBI no problem, All you have to do is dril a hole in the collector and weld in a $5.00 threaded bung for the 02 sensor. StockTBI will support up to 325 HP in a BBC. It can make Even more HP with a bored out/modified TB and some chip work. You can get modified GM TBs that flow 750 cfm.

 

[fortcollinsram]

currently it has the tbi setup. I was just curious what sensors it had that it needed in order to function. do not know anything about tbi other than it's better than a carb for near stock engines. I had thought about rebuilding the whole engine in the future. May just be head gaskets that it needs I am not sure yet. If I do rebuild the whole engine I may as well get some power out of it. I want very badly a set of nice headers and dual 3" exhaust. Was toying with the idea of sidepipes as they are rare these days and imho cool and pleasantly different. And with headers and nice exhaust I would need to ditch the tbi anyway... wouldn't be that bad but in a way I may be able to do some minor things and be happy with the tbi. I just do not know what I would want to do to boostthe power on it with tbi. Since I want to run headers more than likely tbi will be coming out. But not till I can afford it.

Yeah you don't need to get rid of TBI just b/c you are putting headers on it....


Here is BBC specs:

-~10.1 compression
-stock intake with a little port work
-stock "156" casting heads with a little intake work
-Cam is advertised duration (intake/exhaust) 202º/210º, and maximum lift is .468/.485". Centerline is 110º.
-Doug Thorley Tri-Y headers with dual 3" exhaust w/ Flowmaster 50's and turndowns after mufflers
-GMPP distributor

Other than that there is nothing really special about my engine. The only fuel mod is VRFPR and FP gauge. I am running too lean at WOT under havy load @ ~3000rpm and up b/c my fuel pump can't keep up so that is my next fuel system mod. It runs like a bat out of hell compared to what it used to be with a stock 350 in there... Although I am still planning on getting rid of the top end of this motor once I get into some more money (replacing heades, intake and TBI with all new crap including MPFI)


Chris

Check out www.454ss.com

that will give you an idea about the limitations of the stock TBI system...

 

[Mad-Dog]

I was thinking if he reaaly wants to keep the TBI and make serious power he could use the stand-alone Megasquirt EFI computer from Bowling n Grippo......

http://www.bgsoflex.com/auto.html

They also have a link to injector sizing on their page...!

 

[big_truxx]

how much torque & hp is yer motor putting out?

 

[big_truxx]

Also I know the factory rating on the 454tbi in my 89 crew dualy was 265hp & 350 lb ft of tq supposedly. I think that even upping it to 325-350 hp and 450ish lb ft tq would be a very noticable and satisfying change. I was thinking about getting heads port matched and big valves put in. also headers and free flowing exhaust possibly in the form of h-pipe and side pipes. Then maybe a cam depending on what would work well w/ tbi... I always liked the summit cams not sure if they work well w/ tbi or not.

 

[fortcollinsram]

I have no idea what my engine puts out but Desktop dyno says arounds 350hp and 490ft lbs. I built the engine for torque, not horse power. It pulls the hardest from 1900 to 3000 rpm.

On thing to note, look at the casting number on your head before you do ANYTHING to the heads. The only reason I am using the peanut port heads on my engine is b/c I had all the work done to them before I know was a piece of junk they were for horepower applications. That is why my build turned out the way it did; as a torque motor, b/c the "156" heads are GREAT torque heads but SUCK above 3000rpm. If I had done more research before hand I would've just applied the $$$ I spent on my heads towards some Edelbrock RPM aluminum 6045-9 heads. But hindsight is 20/20 right?

You can find the "049" castings often on ebay and they can support well over 500hp with the right work


When it comes to selecting cams for TBI BE CAREFULL. Your best bet is to call Comp and tell them what you goals are and what you application is and they can hook you up. But the rule of thumb is you can't get a cam with much more duration than 212* @ .050" without custom tuning.

 

[big_truxx]

just ran some different parts and came up with 325hp and 470tq w/ 8:1 comp and headers and pocket ported heads w/ large valves and the stock cam option. thats probably a better deal with stock tbi assuming that the rings are stillgood after the engine ran hot for a while from losing the belt

 

[Eric M.]

Do you have any kind of annual or bi-annual inspections for registration where you are? You might want to take a hard look at that before you do anything. Might also want to do a little research to see if your state is considering inspections in the future. That's how I got burned - 1 tons were exempt in 85 when I bought. Several years later that changed ... and I had a blower under the hood

Good luck,

Eric M.

 

[big_truxx]

yep anual inspections LOL but my 82 passed w/ dual headers and no cats and thats a crew dually w/ a mr goodwrench 350... tink it even had glasspacks on at the time of inspection. I may even find with just a refresher build the 454 tbi and a set of dual exhaust headers w/o stoopid cat would make a BIG difference I remember when she was new she'd come right around sideways with all 4 duals justa turnin headers of any type and big dual exhaust w/o cats would let it breath a lot better. But I was thinking if I had to rebuild it why not take heads to a machine shop and have them pocket ported along with the intake manifold and also put bigger valves in at the same time? I may wanna rebuild the whole thing since she's at 163k now... but maybe I should see if a set of head gaskets work good to start I cannot rebuild it myself currently as I am w/o garage and tools. so that would have to all be done by a machine shop... and money dictates when the work gets done so since I am getting divorced and trying to build a garage to live in soon hereafter... it may be a while before I can seriously get into the 454's problems and reviving it.

 

[big_truxx]

also another thing, here in maine when you buy a vehicle 1st you put insurance on it (need for registration) then you register it (needed for inspection (the you take it to a mechanic that does state inspections. we do not have emissions testing though

 

[Eric M.]

yep anual inspections LOL but my 82 passed w/ dual headers and no cats and thats a crew dually w/ a mr goodwrench 350... tink it even had glasspacks on at the time of inspection.

Geez, what do they inspect for ... properly inflated tires, operable sun visors?? Here in CA, it's a whole different game. You keep it stock, dead stock. If you change a thing, you need to have papers from CARB (California Air Research Board ... or Big Asshats) saying that part is acceptable on your year vehicle and then you have to take your rig to a state referee who decides if it is OK or not. And if you think those guys have a clue about what they are doing .... think again. The CA law has gone back and forth a few times over the last few years regarding the cut off years for smog testing. It was 75, then 76 and now back to 75. It was never 74 .... I tried to register a 74 and was told it needed to be smogged. The computers used to smog vehicles are wired by modem directly to the CA DMV and there are no provisions for 74, I couldn't smog it even if I wanted to! I spent 1/2 an hour explaining it to them and no luck. I had to reschedule an appointment, go home, go to THEIR website and print their law out and bring it back. Crap like that just pisses me off when I think about all the hard earned money we pay in taxes.

Sorry ... go off track a bit .... you can have your post back

Good Luck!

Eric M.