465 32spline output

[Clod_King]

Okay, so I bought an SM465 with the 10 spline output shaft....

I was on the Novak Conversions website, and I can order a 32 spline 4WD output shaft. Is that a direct swap in?

Or do I need different bearings, and boring of the case???

Otherwise I'm a gonna order...

 

[nvrenuf]

I don't know about the differences in bearings, maybe search through some parts store websites and see if there are different overhaul kits.

As for the shaft, how much is the Novak part? I would imagine you could pick up a used shaft here cheaper. Wish you were closer, I've got a trans I want to sell... cheap!

 

[dyeager535]

I suspect Novak will charge more than what most people will sell a used 465 for, 10 or 32 spline.

I'm 99% sure there is no difference in output shaft bearings, but I'm sure someone here is 100% sure one way or the other. I do have a complete 32 spline I think I can get to in the garage if you need me to measure.

 

[5280k5]

Unless they are talking about a 32 spline short output shaft like the one ORD sells
Found this part of their 465 info page pretty interesting.




Spline Misunderstandings Clarified

"More splines are stronger"

Not necessarily. Larger shaft diameters are stronger, and larger shaft diameters usually require a higher quantity of splines. However, the automotive powertrain industries migrated to more splines on shafts due to their ease (speed, cost, etc.) of manufacture - smaller splines being able to be roll forged instead of the larger splines having to be machine cut.

A 32 spline output shaft vs. a 10 spline spline output shaft is probably only minutely stronger, and a decision of use here should be driven more by compatibility than perceived strength.

 

[Clod_King]

I read that about a month ago.... and completely forgot it... hahaha.


Well I was going for the 32 spline because I know that the NP203 does come as 32spline input.

Now advanced adapters has a tranny to t-case adapter for a 10 spline, or 27 spline 203, to a Muncie M21 or M22 (I don't know if those are the same or completely different from the 465..)

I cannot find the adpater for a 32 spline connection between a 465, and 203...


And the 32 spline output is 139.00 US.

 

[Clod_King]

Okay so I found this on the ORD site:

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]GM SM465 4 speed Manual Transmission:
If you have an SM465 transmission there are 3 ways to mate it to the NP203.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1: Use a factory configuration. GM mated the NP203 to the SM465 in 1973-1975 using the 10 spline output in the 465, a 10 spline female input in the NP203 and a 4.25" adapter housing between the two. This configuration was used in a wide range of GM trucks but is somewhat rare. Problems are the 10 spline connection tends to wear in the long term and it's difficult to find. Positives would be the short length and the ability to use the common 10 spline output in the transmission.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]2: Use a SM465 that was originally mated to an NP208 transfer case. This 465 will have a 32 spline output shaft with a 8 3/8" adapter housing. You'll use a NP203 gearbox with a 32 spline input gear and the face of the 203 drilled and tapped with the GM round bolt pattern to match up to the factory 208 adapter housing. This works very well if you have the available length in the vehicle since the parts are commonly available and the 32 spline connection is very strong and durable.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]3. Use the factory SM465 to NP203 adapter housing with ORD's new 32 spline SM465 output shaft and a 32 spline input gear in the NP203. This allows the shortest overall length with the highest strength, most durable spline connection.[/FONT]


I would prefer the 3rd option (obviously, I think anyone would prefer the 3rd option). But I think the third option would be the most difficult to find. LEt alone find for a decent price.

I have an idea that I would be going with the 465-208 adapter, and I'd have to have the face of the 203 redrilled.... I don't like that option... I want to keep the machining down to a minimum... that only means extra costs.

 

[5280k5]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]3. Use the factory SM465 to NP203 adapter housing with ORD's new 32 spline SM465 output shaft and a 32 spline input gear in the NP203. This allows the shortest overall length with the highest strength, most durable spline connection.[/FONT]


I would prefer the 3rd option (obviously, I think anyone would prefer the 3rd option). But I think the third option would be the most difficult to find. LEt alone find for a decent price.

quote]

It's impossible to find since GM never made it ORD makes their own "short" 32 spline output shaft. I've been doing a lot of research on this lately after destroying a 465/205 adaptor and coupler sleeve for my 10 spline setup. 10 splines are easy to find but get that wear slop in them, 32 splines fit nice and are very durable but cost $$$

 

[Clod_King]

So GM never made that adapter housing???

I understand the output shaft is an ORD unit, it's the adapter I am looking for...

I never grabbed the adapter for the 203 because it didn't hook up to the 465. So I deemed the adapter useless, and left it.

SO! the real question is: Where can I find an SM465 to NP203 adapter??

Or would I be better off going with the NP208 adapter, and redrilling the 203 face??

I mean i gotta get the 205 housing bored out to fit the big bearing of the 32 spline input anyways right?? (I bought the 10spline input 205)

 

[tarussell]

So GM never made that adapter housing???

I understand the output shaft is an ORD unit, it's the adapter I am looking for...

I never grabbed the adapter for the 203 because it didn't hook up to the 465. So I deemed the adapter useless, and left it.

SO! the real question is: Where can I find an SM465 to NP203 adapter??

Or would I be better off going with the NP208 adapter, and redrilling the 203 face??

I mean i gotta get the 205 housing bored out to fit the big bearing of the 32 spline input anyways right?? (I bought the 10spline input 205)

GM made the 465 to 203 adapter but only for a very short while ( 1974~1976 ) according to GM parts manuals but most of us have only ever seen the actual application on 1974 model trucks only.
They are out there but getting harder to find.

The A/A adapter that was mentioned up above is totally different than what the 465 needs.

A lot of folks end up redrilling the 203 case for the long factory adapter but you must use the long 32 spline shaft for it to work.

Keep looking if you want a factory 465 to 203 adapter - I bought two of them on this board when I was collecting parts for my "Doubler" . They do show up from time to time.

Tom

 

[5280k5]

So GM never made that adapter housing???

I understand the output shaft is an ORD unit, it's the adapter I am looking for...

quote]

No, sorry for the confusion I was talking about the shaft only. Yeah, good luck finding that 465/203 adaptor....it could happen though.

 

[Clod_King]

NUTS!!!

So the more likely way to go would be the NP208 adapter??

I know people on here run a 465, and the doubler system, I just want to know how they others got around this problem.

You'd think a company would bring out an adapter for this apllication...

They'd have the monoploy on the market pretty much!!

 

[nvrenuf]

Once upon a time NorthWestFab's website showed a custom 465/203 adapter that they were making but it's gone now. You might call and ask about it.

 

[Clod_King]

I think I will!

Thanks man, that is great news!

 

[Clod_King]

I sent them an email and this was my answer:

Chris,

Due to a lack of interest we discontinued the product, we wern't moving
enough volume to justify production.

-Kyle.
NWF
>
>
> Hey guys,
>
> I am wondering if you still make/have the 465/203 adapter??
>
> I read on ColoradoK5 that you guys used to have these for sale. But I
> could not find them on your site...
>
> I don't really want to go with the NP208 adapter, and redrill the face of
> the 203... I would like an adapter to just bolt right up.
>
> Thanks guys,
>
> Chris Tuyp

 

[5280k5]

Hey Chris, try giving these guys a call http://www.jedsmachining.com/
I talked to him about a custom adaptor for my 465/205 setup. He can do almost anything you want, just costs a little more if it becomes one-of custom work. Nice guy, actually encourages his customers to do a lot of research & shopping around before ordering stuff

 

[Clod_King]

My responce, and my answer:

I've got one that warped when it was welded, could be a fairly easy
repaired if you have acess to some basic tools, it was only 1/2 compelted.
Yours for $50 if you want it.

-Kyle.

>
> You wouldn't happen to have any leftover stock would you??
>
> And if not, I am geussing that making one would be too much trouble for
> the money?
>

Should I go for this?? I don't know exaclty what he means by "basic tools" (grinder, and a welder??).


It is a dirt cheap price. I mean 50 bucks wouldn't buy me a GM unit (if I ever found one that is), and if it is salvagable, I would have a really killer setup...

But I only have a welder for sheetmetal work.... Anything over 1/8" thick steel, and the welder is useless. Plus I would want a solid guy that knows his stuff to do the welding for me anyways. I am not to solid on welding...

 

[nvrenuf]

I would ask for a more specific description of what wrong with it and what's left to be completed.

 

[blaznjon]

I have the 10 spline adapter and 203 transfercase but the shipping to canada would be probably be alot more then its worth.I looked for a long time before i found this one.Then changed plans.
Jon

 

[nvrenuf]

Just a thought, maybe just ship the adapter and input shaft.

 

[Clod_King]

I got him to send it to me. For $62.50 Canadian to my door step it would be cheap enough to try.

He said there was less then 1/8" of warpage, and said they didn't gusset between the two tubes...

SO he said to get a machine shop to machine one side, or to grind out the welds, and re-weld the thing...

But the front half of my work is a machine shop, and we have a "maintanence" guy who has many years of experience in welding (ie: he has built and installed 15 plus cranes, bridge, and jib type, and has built every machine in the building besides the machine shop stuff.)


I am pretty sure I could get all the work done for free. And even get the thing powder coat blue or red for free...

I bought it, so i am going to try it. I'll take measurments, and take pictures when it shows up at my door.


Blaznjon, if I would've looked at the thread before I purchased this thing I would've bought your adapter. But I just got off the phone with the dude, and he said it either went to me, or went in the scrap bin.

So if this thing is way off, I'll PM you.