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465 to NV3500 Swap Q's

S

Swanson52

1/2 ton status
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After researching both the NV4500 and NV3500, I *think* I have settled on the 3500 based on my needs, vehicle use, etc. I used my google machine and searched on here, but was unable to find much info on the swap itself, just people referencing having done or doing the swap. So...I'm going to bite the N00b bullet and ask about it.

Specifically, we're dealing with a 1983 GMC Jimmy, 350/465/208. I looked on car-part.com at a random 1999 S-10, and I was curious which one I need; I chose 4x4 V-6 (obviously), but does it matter if the trans came out of a ZR2 or not?

I understand the 3500 has an integral bell and an internal hydraulic slave. What parts am I going to need from a donor vehicle or otherwise to complete the swap as far as hydraulic clutch parts are concerned?

Input and output-what are the issues here? Will I need to swap input for my application and output for my 208, or are there years that will not require any shaft swaps?
 
The output on every GM 3500 I've seen was 32 spline which will match the 208 you have. I don't know for sure but I believe the input spline is different, I'm almost certain that there were V8's in front of 3500's in 90's GM trucks so you should be able to find a clutch that will work.

As for the '99 S10 thing, I know that many S10 5 speeds were Borg Warner T-5's but not sure when/if they switched away from that.

Not a ton of help but that's about the extent of what I know about those things :dunno:


And for a truck that doesn't see a lot of tow duty they are a good trans.
 
The nv3500 didnt come in front of the 350 to my knowledge. The 350 3500s either got an sm465 from 88-91 I believe and then the 4500 after that.

I did this research a while back and am trying to remember. I believe that the nv3500 came in newer body style s10s. They continued to use them in the later trucks and from what I remember reading made improvements nearly every year.

It does come in a 32 spl variety though.
 
the 350s in half-tons came with a light-duty 5spd but it wasnt a 3500. it was some muncie job thats i have heard isnt very good. thats all i know.
 
Also the trannys from the S10's wont work unless u use the S10 x-fer case. They only use 5 trans to x-fer bolts instead of 6 like the fullsize does.
 
The S-10 NV3500 will not work for your application. While they will bolt onto your engine, they use a 5 bolt round bolt pattern for the transfercase instead of 6, and the shifter is right at the very tail end of the transmission, putting it up through your floor right about where your center console sits.

You need an NV3500 from behind a 4.3L V6 or 5.0L V8 (and rarely, the 5.7L) from a 96+ K1500. Absolutely avoid any NV3500 with an external slave cylinder on them. Not only does the slave interfere with your front driveshaft unless you've got a bunch of lift, but they are also extremely weak, and break very frequently even with just light and normal use. They also use a very crappy shifter assembly which frequently falls out of gear.

In about 96 they switched to an internal slave transmission, which is what you want to find. I am not sure exactly when they switched it, but there are two versions of shift rails. One is a single rail, and the other has several rails. You want the version with a single rail on it. They are the strongest version of the NV3500 from 88-98. GM continued using the NV3500 until at least 05, possibly up until 07.5. These transmissions are the ultimate in strength, and came behind 4.8L V8 engines which make more horsepower and torque than a Vortec 5.7L. I have one from an 04 in my K5, and have had no mercy with it power shifting and dumping the clutch over and over on it while mud bogging at full throttle with my 6.2L turbocharged diesel engine offroad, with poor gearing and 37" boggers with lockers. No signs of failure at all, no unusual noises etc.

Swapping them in is not a difficult task. They bolt straight in place of your SM465, using the same transmission crossmember in the same position, using the same mount even. They all have a 32 spline 6 bolt round pattern so you can use an NP241 or NP208. NP205 would not be a good choice, as there is no place for the shifter bolt. The clutch is the same as your SM465, no need to change the flywheel, disc or pressure plate. You need to use the hydraulic throwout bearing, of course. The shifter on these trucks sits a few inches back of the SM465, requiring you to cut the floor back a bit, and patch it up at the top. If you want to use the stock shifter boot, you will need to move the NP208/241 shifter back a few inches and shorten the shift linkage under the truck to match. To match the hydro clutch, I personally retrofitted a 93 K3500 bolt on type master cylinder onto my truck. I drilled a hole through the clutch pedal and used a 1/2" bolt with the head cut off / hole drilled through for a hitch pin to attach the linkage to the pedal. I have heard rumours, but have not tested just yet (give me two weeks...) that you can simply splice an 85-91 stock master cylinder to the clutch hose for the internal slave and use it without any trouble. Try at your own risk, you have to buy the master and the slave to get a new hose from GM. The reverse light wiring is a plug in kind of a deal, same connector as your SM465.

Let me know if you have any other questions or run into trouble!
 
Wow. Jackpot!

Off to do some part searching. Seriously, thanks a million, that's awesome info right there.
 
One question; is the 3500 only in 2wd 1500 applications, with the 4500 being in 4x4 and heavier duty applications?
 
The NV3500 was used in 4WD too. Should only be the 1/2 ton stuff though.

Rene
 
Just finished up the NV4500 swap I was working on into a 91 K5 blazer. I am pleased to announce that I can confirm the rumours that you can splice the NV4500 slave cylinder with the stock 85-91 hydro clutch master cylinder! Works just like stock, and eliminates a whole bunch of extra work by retrofitting the newer master cylinders up.

All we did was make a new length of single flare tubing to connect to the master cylinder, put a 90 degree bend in it, then used a Swagelok 5/16 x 1/4" tube to tube union to splice the two pieces together. The black plastic tubing used by GM for the clutch hose has no trouble sealing to the ferrules of the fitting. The fittings are rated for better than 22 000 PSI and are used for industrial processes. They are made of 316 stainless steel for a lifetime of reliable service. They can also be loosened and re-tightened an unlimited number of times without ever deforming, not to mention the fact that they do not change the ID of the tube they are fitted to.
 
This helped me out a ton as well. I still have some issues though. I had bought a 3500 with a np241 left hand drop tcase, clutch, pressureplate, slave, master, and pedal assembly out of a 93 for 150 bucks before reading this thread. My truck is 2wd now and pllanned on doing a 5 speed swap and 4wd conversion at the same time. I planed on using a dana 60 front axle from a ford and keeping it left hand drop but now that I've really looked over the trans and tcase it seems that the lack of a speedo cable is screwing my hole plan. Any ideas?
 
No reason why you can't swap in an electronic speedometer from a 90/91 K5, Suburban or Crewcab to get past that problem!

The wiring is really easy and it looks totally stock! Also eliminates the irritating speedometer cable bounce when it is cold outside and allows for easy calibration for gear and tire size changes.

If you need more information on the swap, take a look here! Lots of wiring information etc.

http://coloradok5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=279190&highlight=VSS+Drac
 
Thanks I didnt know they changed any before 92. I was hope for a simple fix so I don't have to worry about the slave and drveshaft interfearence by staying driver side drop. I have a lot of work to do now. Mine is a crew but an 83 and they're are few and far between in michigan and never 4wd. So I'm splicing a front frame secton from a k20 and using a pas drop dana 60 from a ford with the chevy leaf springs and steer box and probably a 4x4 shifter from a mid 90s truck. Thanks for the help. Let me know if you think of any other problems Ill have.
 
74 K5 sm 465 & NP 203 Swap to NV 3500 & NP 208 or NP241

Russell said:
The S-10 NV3500 will not work for your application. While they will bolt onto your engine, they use a 5 bolt round bolt pattern for the transfercase instead of 6, and the shifter is right at the very tail end of the transmission, putting it up through your floor right about where your center console sits.

You need an NV3500 from behind a 4.3L V6 or 5.0L V8 (and rarely, the 5.7L) from a 96+ K1500. Absolutely avoid any NV3500 with an external slave cylinder on them. Not only does the slave interfere with your front driveshaft unless you've got a bunch of lift, but they are also extremely weak, and break very frequently even with just light and normal use. They also use a very crappy shifter assembly which frequently falls out of gear.

In about 96 they switched to an internal slave transmission, which is what you want to find. I am not sure exactly when they switched it, but there are two versions of shift rails. One is a single rail, and the other has several rails. You want the version with a single rail on it. They are the strongest version of the NV3500 from 88-98. GM continued using the NV3500 until at least 05, possibly up until 07.5. These transmissions are the ultimate in strength, and came behind 4.8L V8 engines which make more horsepower and torque than a Vortec 5.7L. I have one from an 04 in my K5, and have had no mercy with it power shifting and dumping the clutch over and over on it while mud bogging at full throttle with my 6.2L turbocharged diesel engine offroad, with poor gearing and 37" boggers with lockers. No signs of failure at all, no unusual noises etc.

Swapping them in is not a difficult task. They bolt straight in place of your SM465, using the same transmission crossmember in the same position, using the same mount even. They all have a 32 spline 6 bolt round pattern so you can use an NP241 or NP208. NP205 would not be a good choice, as there is no place for the shifter bolt. The clutch is the same as your SM465, no need to change the flywheel, disc or pressure plate. You need to use the hydraulic throwout bearing, of course. The shifter on these trucks sits a few inches back of the SM465, requiring you to cut the floor back a bit, and patch it up at the top. If you want to use the stock shifter boot, you will need to move the NP208/241 shifter back a few inches and shorten the shift linkage under the truck to match. To match the hydro clutch, I personally retrofitted a 93 K3500 bolt on type master cylinder onto my truck. I drilled a hole through the clutch pedal and used a 1/2" bolt with the head cut off / hole drilled through for a hitch pin to attach the linkage to the pedal. I have heard rumours, but have not tested just yet (give me two weeks...) that you can simply splice an 85-91 stock master cylinder to the clutch hose for the internal slave and use it without any trouble. Try at your own risk, you have to buy the master and the slave to get a new hose from GM. The reverse light wiring is a plug in kind of a deal, same connector as your SM465.

Let me know if you have any other questions or run into trouble!
Click to expand...

Hi,

Thanks for the info Russell. I am looking to do this swap on my truck. I am just wondering if this post would apply to me also? Do you know if there will be any issues because of the NP 203 (full time 4wd) transfer case? Axles the same? Is it the same process?

Any thoughts greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
 
74 k5 said:
Hi,

Thanks for the info Russell. I am looking to do this swap on my truck. I am just wondering if this post would apply to me also? Do you know if there will be any issues because of the NP 203 (full time 4wd) transfer case? Axles the same? Is it the same process?

Any thoughts greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Click to expand...

Your 203 will not bolt up to the NV3500, unfortunately. It has it's own unique bolt pattern. It is possible to re-drill the adapter with a 6 bolt round pattern like the newer transfer cases use. I have never owned an NP203, and cannot comment on if the input shaft is the same or not though.

You'd be best off installing an NP208 or mechanical drive NP241 and changing the shifter + driveshafts out in your truck and swapping to manual locking hubs. The conversion to part time 4x4 is kind of nice anyways, less stuff rotating all the time so less potential for vibrations and better fuel economy due to less overall drag.
 
An SM465/NP203 combo is quite rare, and rather sought after to build a doubler with.

Martin
 
Thanks for the quick response Russell. I was planning on swapping out the transfer case as well. Which transfer case would you go with? Does it matter? Is one easier to install than the other? Any ideas for a one stop shop donor vehicle? The truck does have manual lockers installed if it makes a difference. Thanks for the help.
 
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