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4T65E 1-2 delay shift issue

73k5blazer

End the H1B Program!
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I was trying to fix this issue for my MIL. It's a 2004 LeSabre with 93k/mi. It started to have a 1-2 long shift, it wasn't slippage, seemed more electronic or something to me, upon acceleration it would shift out of 1st and rpm's would jump until you took your foot off the gas , and within 2-4seconds it would shift into 2nd. Definitely does not seem like slipping. She drove it for a week avg. 100mi/day and no smells, fluid was not burnt one bit, and most of all, during the delay, no forward drive movement at all, none, it's out of 1st and not in 2nd. It would do this generally only when warmed up, never when it was still cold.

While it didn't pop a light, it did have a code, the 1-2 long shift detected, in which case, it bumps the line pressure in an attempt to force it to shift (or so I read). In researching it seems it was fairly common issue, the pressure solenoid inside the side cover. Lots of different research resources pointed to that. WHile alot of work to get at, it's not expensive. She took it to a shop before I looked at it, they wanted to put in a whole new transmission for $3200.
So I did that, along with all the other solenoids behind that cover while I was in there, the 1-2 shift, 3-4 shift and tcc solenoids.
Giant can of worms to do that job, forgot to remove a brake line while dropping the cradle enough to get that side cover off, and it broke, because it was rusted so bad. A good line would have just broke the plastic clip. So I replaced all the brake lines with a SS set, since the lines had many other badly rusted spots, GM should be sued for these, forget 20lbs of shit on your keys and having to hit the keychain while panicking and running off the road and hitting something hard enough to pop an air bag, I've replaced countless GM vehicles rusty brake lines from 1965 to 2011's, friggen criminal they used plain steel up til 2014. The stabilizer links also busted from rust, of course.
Anyway, got it all put back together, also drained the fluid and put new filter and synthetic fluid back in.

Well, it still did it. Although not nearly as often as it was doing it. Before after it warmed up it would do it pretty much every acceleration from stop.Today it was only very occasionaly and less as time went by. So, now where do I go? Let it work in some more and it'll stop by itself? The accumulator piston? They make a shift kit with a new piston and spring that supposed to change or firm up the 1-2 shift. That's behind the pan, so pretty easy to get at unlike those solenoids. No idea what it is though, I would have bet a paycheck it was that pressure solenoid, the descriptions, codes and everything I found matched that problem. Seems, it wasn't it. But it really doesn't feel, sound or act like old transmission slipping.

Any ideas what it really could be? My only idea is to try that accumulator piston/spring thing. I don't work on automatics much. I've rebuilt several manuals, auto's...ehh....I prefer my manuals!
 
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Well, she's driven it 3 days now, avg'ing 140+mi/day, and it hasn't done it. Whatever I did, seems to have fixed it. Mabey it was just disconnecting battery cable/computer reset? Mabey the fluid change fixed it? Mabey it had nothing to do with the solenoids I replaced? The old fluid didn't look bad at all though, still mostly red, not burnt no silt/not dirty. Oh well, it seems fixed and has new fluid and solenoids, so hopefully it'll be good to go for a while now.
 
Hopefully the shift solenoid and EPC solenoid replacement did the trick. We used to see these come in with cracked 2nd gear pistons or drums but most of the time we see solenoid or harness issues. I don't envy anyone doing car repair in that part of the country, it must be awful to have to contend with all of the corrosion!
 
ahh its not that bad @Greg Ducato 5 gal bucket at a time is all :doah::doah::whistle::whistle:

you learn lots of tricks and slow and steady is the key . no major power tools unless you know the item your working on or its oh crap real quick .

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This is an '86 C10 I bought in 2004ish and drove from MI to Ohio every other week until 2010ish. When I bought it, it didn't have a spec of rust on it and that back bumper was brand new the PO had just put on it. 3 on the tree tranny with 4.3l V6. While I had hardened it over time, renud (coated) gas tanks, SS brake & fuel lines..I had to retire it because one day on the freeway someone hit the brakes hard in front of me, I hit mine hard, I came to stop no problem, I always kept the thing in very good mechanical order, but the cab had shifted off it's mounts (or lack of mounts) and it was binding up the steering. I was able to drive it still, but once I got home I said, ahh...I think this one's had enough. Far too gone to save.
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Woof!! I hope your tetanus vaccinations are up to date, a fella could lose a finger just washing that one.
 
And that license plate is hilarious!

I already knew what industry you worked in. But if I didn't, that plate would remove all doubt!

:haha: :rotfl:

:thumb:
 
While we're talking 4T65e tech...my '99 Lesabre almost always acts like the torque converter is unlocked. Engine RPM follows throttle position freely. Occasionally it will hold its place, but it's not at all what I would expect from a transmission equipped with TCC lockup.

@Greg Ducato, is this a normal behavior for this transmission? I have no error codes, the car has 100k on the odometer, and it's been consistent for the 15,000 miles that I've owned the car.
 
While we're talking 4T65e tech...my '99 Lesabre almost always acts like the torque converter is unlocked. Engine RPM follows throttle position freely. Occasionally it will hold its place, but it's not at all what I would expect from a transmission equipped with TCC lockup.

@Greg Ducato, is this a normal behavior for this transmission? I have no error codes, the car has 100k on the odometer, and it's been consistent for the 15,000 miles that I've owned the car.
 
This trans has a modulated lockup, the clutch is never 100 percent applied. As the car gets older, the throttle input is greater to maintain speed and the computer allows a bit more slippage commensurate with throttle demand. The computer has very little tolerance for slippage beyond its scope of programming, it will throw codes quickly if the converter and system get out of sync.
 
This trans has a modulated lockup, the clutch is never 100 percent applied. As the car gets older, the throttle input is greater to maintain speed and the computer allows a bit more slippage commensurate with throttle demand. The computer has very little tolerance for slippage beyond its scope of programming, it will throw codes quickly if the converter and system get out of sync.

How does clutch slippage not cause failures? :dunno:
 
It is only partial converter clutch slippage to maintain the converters gear multiplication attributes. The clutch is a woven carbon fiber and is designed to function in this manner. This was a pretty common function in GM and Ford transmissions of the era and still is in some models .
 
Huh,so I guess that is why so many later model cars and trucks drive by and sound like they have a CVT transmission ?..
I have noticed many newer trucks sound like the converter is slipping,or like an old fluid drive..instead of having a direct lock up..
 
It is only partial converter clutch slippage to maintain the converters gear multiplication attributes. The clutch is a woven carbon fiber and is designed to function in this manner. This was a pretty common function in GM and Ford transmissions of the era and still is in some models .

I've heard this before, and I hear cars doing it. I just haven't quite gotten my head wrapped around how it can work dependably.

Being a 3rd-pedal fan, I find the autonomous changes in engine speed annoying. :crazy:
 
In my experience with the 4t65,a lot of the weird shifting problems that don't cause codes can be attributed to a worn out valve body.
 
Sounds like something was stuck in the valve body. Happened to my buddy’s cavalier. Full fluid and filter change with synthetic blend atf and a bottle of Lucas trans fix and within 10 miles it fixed itself. It seems like the extra clean fluid and filter pushed out whatever was sticking. It was also a 1-2 shift issue.
 
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