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56s backwards and pinion angle

sandawgk5

sandawgk5

3/4 ton status
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Oct 28, 2003
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Kitsap County PACNORWEST
I have 56s in my K5 with a 14FF and a shackle flip. My pinion is pointed at my tcase and my axle has moved forward due to the flip and the pinion is longer as well. I need to rotate my pinion down to bring Ujoint angles closer to each other. Here are some pics of the joints.
Pinion
14ff_front.JPG

Tcase
rearshaft.JPG

It appears in the photo of the Tcase that I have plenty of slip in the case. Now for the question.

Can I flip my 56s around and corect my pinion angle? The pin is not in the center of the spring and it appears that flipping them around will rotate the pinion down. I also need to add a zero rate to bring the rear up and I would prefer to not have a tapered one. As most I am on a budget of $0 so I am trying to find the cheapest way possible to do this. I also have a stock cover on my 14FF and it looks like I will not have any clearance issues with the gas tank. I am open to ideas guys.

Thanks

Ira
 
man, to bad the budget is zero.. you could SYE, run a CV shaft and your ff14b angle would be perfect. :thumb:

j
 
Ya if I had the cash I would buy K10andykhamnics sye-208 but I dont have the cash. The budget is not technically zero but it is low:o . I might just have to eat it and get tapered zero rates. I would really like to move the axle back also as it looks really far foward in the wheel well.

Ira
 
It depends, that is perfect for a CV shaft. If your non-slip yoke has a CV at the Tcase it is perfect.:D Mine does not vibrate unless I am coasting and I think that has to do with the Detroit in the rear. I would however like to bring the operating angle of the 2 joints in so they live alittle longer.:o

Ira
 
Your pinion angle will stay the same if you flip your 56's. Yes it will go down but you are also moving the axle back 4" which will keep the angle the same.
If you want cheap then cut the purches loose and rotate it down. Otherwise spend the $30 for shims.
 
85mudblazin said:
Your pinion angle will stay the same if you flip your 56's. Yes it will go down but you are also moving the axle back 4" which will keep the angle the same.
If you want cheap then cut the purches loose and rotate it down. Otherwise spend the $30 for shims.
Click to expand...

I am confused, if I rotate the pinion down how does moving the axle backwards point it back at the Tcase?

Ira
 
Yea its hard to understand.
Ok think of it as 2 steps.
If you go and look now.
First step is rotate pinion down. That is good.
Now push the axle back 4" and the pinion angle will be in the same spot.
 
I am going to rotate the pinion down by flipping the springs around this will put the leaf pin behind the center of the spring and on the "upslope" of the spring to the shackle. This will subsequently point the pinion down from where it is now. I am not seeing where how the pinion is going to be pointed back up at the Tcase.:dunno:

Ira
 
85mudblazin said:
Your pinion angle will stay the same if you flip your 56's. Yes it will go down but you are also moving the axle back 4" which will keep the angle the same.
If you want cheap then cut the purches loose and rotate it down. Otherwise spend the $30 for shims.
Click to expand...

That is my experience also.
 
sandawgk5 said:
I am going to rotate the pinion down by flipping the springs around this will put the leaf pin behind the center of the spring and on the "upslope" of the spring to the shackle. This will subsequently point the pinion down from where it is now. I am not seeing where how the pinion is going to be pointed back up at the Tcase.:dunno:

Ira
Click to expand...
Fine then go flip them.:rolleyes:
 
If it doesnt vibe while driving now , I wouldnt worry about it too much .I would flip the springs . Get the zero rates to correct the angle and move it back at the same time.PMing you now......
 
I just thought about it and I think I understand. It has to do with 56s basically being flat with the weight of the truck on them. The rear of the spring is always lower than the front with the flip. So regardless of where the spring pin is do to the mount alone the pinion will always point at the tcase. Is this correct?

The reason I have not cut the perches is I have the huge cast ones:doah: .

Ira
 
Alright, so in my beautiful drawing(:D ) you can see that the further the axle is moved back the less steep the angle becomes on the driveshaft.

So when you flip the 56's even though it lowers the pinion some with it being moved back the angle on the driveshaft is going to be about the same.
Understand??
pinion_change.jpg
 
85mudblazin said:
Alright, so in my beautiful drawing(:D ) you can see that the further the axle is moved back the less steep the angle becomes on the driveshaft.

So when you flip the 56's even though it lowers the pinion some with it being moved back the angle on the driveshaft is going to be about the same.
Understand??
pinion_change.jpg
Click to expand...


We are talking about 2 different things:doah: . I am trying to correct pinion angle only not the operating angle of the Dshaft. I might have improperly used a term about operating angles. What I was trying to say was that I would like each ujoint to be at the same angle as they rotate. Is this acheivable by flipping my springs around or does the drawing still apply. I realize it is paint and not autocad:D . Not trying to argue just trying to get it straight in my head dont wanna do a lot of work just to be where I am right now ya know.:D

Ira
 
sandawgk5 said:
We are talking about 2 different things:doah: . I am trying to correct pinion angle only not the operating angle of the Dshaft. I might have improperly used a term about operating angles. What I was trying to say was that I would like each ujoint to be at the same angle as they rotate. Is this acheivable by flipping my springs around or does the drawing still apply. I realize it is paint and not autocad:D . Not trying to argue just trying to get it straight in my head dont wanna do a lot of work just to be where I am right now ya know.:D

Ira
Click to expand...

I think I understand where both of you are coming from in regard to angles. If currently on the truck the pinion angle is pointed straight with the driveshaft, let's say 10 degrees just for an example......then both the pinion and driveshaft are at 10 degrees up.

If you keep the pinion angle at 10 degrees and just move the axle back, then the driveline angle now becomes less (let's say 5 degrees as an example) because the distance between the t-case output and the pinion is now longer and thus by simple geometry the angle decreases.

So on a 56" spring, assuming the bottom has a small but contant arch, you would rotate the pinion down (slightly "up" angle for forward springs, and slightly "down" angle for reverse springs) but you would have to have a difference of 5 degrees between the two mounting points on the springs just to be back where you were to begin with.

Another thought......if your budget is very low, keep in mind you will need to have the driveshaft lengthened to work with the reverse 56" springs.
 
I guess I will get tapered zero rates and get them cut to allow me to move the rear back 1.5" to center up in the wheel well. Or should I get straight zero rates and then a shim to correct angle. I can get the zero rates and then if there are no vibrations then I can call it good.

Thanks

Ira
 
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