6.0 liter swap, anybody know a good S.E. shop?

[blowedupmotor87]

Okay so, I have decided that I want to have a 6.0 liter LS-series small block for my Jimmy. I have been debating and debating as to what route to take, going in circles for months, chasing my tail. I even considered selling the truck despite the fact that I absolutely love it! I have been told by the NCDMV that they won't pass it with this engine swap but heck, if it comes down to it, I will move to SC (no inspections) after all, it's only 45 minutes away! So, anyways, anybody know a shop in the south east that could do a good job of this swap? It's more complicated then I can handle, that's for sure. Also, will I be able to re-use my stock gauges? I'd like to keep the stock dash if I can.

I have got to just decide on the 6.0 and go for it, if I don't, I'll just keep thinking about and researching different swaps forever, and never end up with an engine in my truck, it's been several months of indecision already! I know there are a lot of other engine swap possibilities but, the 6.0 liter really fits what I want the best. (Well, that's not true, a Duramax really fits exactly what I want but, good gracious, that would cost a fortune!) Thought about a Cummins swap but, the 4BT and 6BT are both too tall and heavy and expensive; thought about 6.2 or 6.5 swap but seems like too little power for so the $$$. I know a 6.2 would be kinda cheap but, I'd want a Banks turbo for it, and that starts to get spendy too. So, even though the 6.0 is gas, it ends up my top choice.

Anyways, I know I am going to get some grief for this post but, I know this swap is way past any mechanical aptitude I have. So, anybody got a shop recommendation? Thanks!

 

[silveradoreb]

I was looking to do the same swap myself in my 84. Either that or a 5.3. I am also in NC, but I think Im set on a ram jet crate motor myself as I have all the tools and help I need. Theres lots of reading on the web about these swaps, Lots of small things I didnt want to deal with. but you might want to talk to Carolina Rock shop on South Blvd. They build rockcrawlers and custom fab anything. Not sure if they do motor swaps but they might now someone in the charlotte area, afterall charlotte is huge and thats where 90 percent of nascar motors are built (moresville/concord)so there are shops . As for guages, some swap in cluster from newer trucks but if you get the harness rewired I think they can put a tach wire in, the rest of the guages are not hard to hook up like autometers ect. Also depeding on year of your truck you probly are not emmsisons tested even though mecklenberg co does test, they only go back 10-15 years I think, hope that helped some.

 

[blowedupmotor87]

Silveradoreb, I appreciate the info. Yeah, I really would love to have the Ramjet 350 but, I am wanting to go with the 6000 so it is smog legal in more states depending where I might live in the future (if I ever move). Since the 6000 is a regular production GM engine, it seems to be more generally accepted than the Ramjet. (That Ramjet is awesome though!) The thing I don't understand is that the idiots at the NCDMV said even the Vortec 6000 won't pass the "visual test". But, I guess we'll see what happens. I see no reason why it shouldn't pass, I intend to keep all the smog equipment that comes on the 6000). Even in Cali this set up would pass so, I can't see as how NC would be even pickier. My Jimmy is an 87, so inspection=safety and visual inspection. The problem is that my original engine has a smog pump, the 6000 does not (smog pumps are completely obsolete nowadays) so, NCDMV says "if you don't retain the smog pump, it won't pass" (even though the 6000 has lower emisssions/better fuel economy than the original 350). Ehh, well, I reckon if they won't pass it, I'll move to SC , only 45 minutes away.J/K I don't think it will come to that though, most inspections places probably won't give a darn anyway and, if it comes to it, I'll take the darn thing up to Raleigh and let them test it as a 2007 OBD II since all the emissions junk will be on it.

 

[Russell]

The swap isn't nearly as bad as you're making it out to be, you'd be wasting a ton of money by taking it to a shop to get them to do it.

However, that said, it will still cost a good 2000 - 3000 to do it properly.

You'll need engine mount adapters, a fuel system capable of supporting your new engine, an adapter to bolt your old 700r4 up, an aftermarket wiring harness, PCM flashing, and exhaust at the bare minimum. I'd personally be looking for an engine from 99 - 2002 so you've got the mechanical throttle body instead of the newer electric fly by wire units.

Cooling system should be easy. From what I've heard, the engine's fan fits in the stock fan shroud real nice, so cooling shouldn't be a huge deal. You will need to drill and tap the engine's water pump to run the steam line that normally goes to the radiator into the water pump itself. The heater core output / inputs are the same size as the old stuff, you just need longer lines.

Fuel system should be really easy for you, having an 87. There are adapters out there to convert your stock TBI flex line connectors over to AN fittings, then you can run a new length of line from the stock hard lines up to the fuel rail on the engine. You'll need to buy a high pressure fuel pump for the tank (Walboro 255L works great), and it'd probably be a good idea to get a new filter as well.

The electrical is really just a matter of ponying up the 5 - 700 bucks for an aftermarket wiring harness. They eliminate all the guesswork, and are literally 4 - 5 wire hookups, power, ground, ignition, tach and speedometer.

PCM programming involves disabling error codes that the PCM would normally set when various things are missing. That ranges from the A/C stuff, to the coolant level sensor down to the fuel tank pressure sensor. You will need VATS disabled, and I would personally recommend you get the EVAP stuff disabled as well. I'd recommend keeping the EVAP system physically hooked up, and have the programmer leave the purge solenoid active, just disabling the codes. You can hook your stock round charcoal canister up, and the engine will still use it as normal to eliminate excess tank pressures on hot days, or any fumes that might otherwise exist.

Hooking gauges up is a matter of buying / building the proper adapters to bolt your original sending units up to the new engine. Above the oil filter there is an adapter with a boss that you can drill for oil pressure, and at the rear of the passenger side head, there is a plug you can pull for the coolant temp sensor. Speedometer will have to be an electric version, which is found in 90 - 91 crew cabs, blazers and suburbans. The PCM puts out the same signal that the factory electric speedometers need to operate. Tach can be aftermarket or factory, but requires that you either get the tach ratio changed in the PCM, or that you run a 4 cylinder tachometer.

Hooking the older 700r4 up involves running a special flexplate with an adapter, then rounding out a few bolt holes. Hooking it up to the engine will require a special aftermarket TV cable, and a mechanically driven throttle body.

Exhaust can be a bit of a pain with these engines. They fit in trucks with much wider frame rails from the factory, and as a result the exhaust dumps almost straight into the pass side frame rail on these trucks. The driver's side is ok though. You'll need to get an f-body manifold for the passenger side to get it to clear, or switch both out with a set of aftermarket headers. I've also learned that the Ford big block headers have almost identically spaced exhaust outputs. If you buy a set for a car, cut the flanges off, and weld new gen III flanges on, they bolt up, and clear the rails very nicely.

I'm sure there is a bit more to it, but so far thats what I've run into during my research. I'd tend to say if you can do any kind of electrical work, have the money and if you can pull a wrench, you can probably pull this swap off yourself without too much trouble Check out www.ls1truck.com and www.ls1tech.com -- Both have a crapload of information on these swaps for both our trucks, and also other cars like Camaros, Corvettes, and even Honda Civics, lol

 

[blowedupmotor87]

Russ,
Wow! Thanks for all the info! I have only one monkey wrench to throw into the works, I have an SM465 that I love and want to keep so, we'll see how that goes! I know it'd probably be easier to go ahead and put in an NV4500 (most would argue a better choice as well) but, I really love my SM465, it's part of why I bought the truck to begin with. I have heard that the 6000 ought to bolt right up since it can run the same bellhousing as a 350 but, I don't know for sure. I may actually be ponying up the cash to get a whole new engine from Turnkey Engine Supply so, wiring ought not be too big a deal since they come with harnesses. Hopefully I will be able to afford an aluminum radiator and electric fans (that's my plan, we'll see).
As to doing the swap myself, I definately appreciate the encouragement but, I know it is way out of my league! That doesn't mean I am going to farm out everything but, I know the engine swap is one I don't feel comfortable getting into. The shop I am talking to quoted me an hourly price and a pretty wide ranging estimate (understandable considering they have yet to see the truck). If it gets up toward the high end of their estimate, it will be getting pretty steep but, not completely unreasonable (just a bit more than your high number). Thanks for all the info!

 

[blowedupmotor87]

Well ****, I just called up Turnkey, they told me they don't sell an emissions legal 6.0 swap anymore, just performance engine packages. Great, well, there goes that idea. Guess I could find a wrecked 6.0 truck but, I really wanted to go with a new engine to ensure no (previous to the swap) mechanical or electrical problems. Well back to square one I guess. I guess I should have checked the date on that Petersen's 6.0 swap article but, I thought it was pretty recent. I though I had a plan and was all set to roll with it now what? Maybe the shop I'm talking to will have a line on a good donor truck, who knows.
You know, I really am beginning to hate this truck, not due to any issue other than the stupid smog pump. I want rid of the darn thing but, I want to make sure that my truck will still be legal without it so, a newer engine is the only way (if NCDuMbV will even pass it THAT way like I mentioned a few posts up).
Before anybody says, "don't worry about it, just rip off the smog pump, nobody'll catch ya'", I don't want to. 2 reasons:
1. From what I have read, ripping out the smog pump, the 02 sensor will read rich (due to lack of fresh air being pumped into the exhaust stream) causing the EFI to run the truck lean.
2. I want the truck to be legal at all times.
I am almost considering selling my truck and buying a nice 73-75 so I won't have to worry about all this junk. But, I really love this truck and, I will lose a ton if I sell it (I got ripped off when I bought it).
Hmm, dilemnas, I am so frustrated right now, anybody got any ideas?

 

[silveradoreb]

Dont know what to tell you. Up here in the mtns when dont have emmisons testing like yall do. And I got lucky mine is an 84 but was military and all military vehicles are exempt from testing plus it came with a 6.2 diesel and back in 84 diesels were not at all emmissions friendly, so I wont have any headaches with a new motor, cause it has a "milatary" VIN. I would look for a good wrecked truck to pull out of, then you can take the gas pedal or anything you need off of it (emmisions stuff)

 

[blowedupmotor87]

Well, it's not that there is emissions testing (no sniff test) just a visual inspection. That is cool that ex-military is exempt, I didn't know that. When I bought this truck, I did not know that there were still going to be visual inspections to make sure equipment was in place, I thought it was going to be safety only so, I was planning to put in a Ramjet 350 actually (I really love that motor too, you are going to have a great set up with that!)
Well, hopefully I will figure something out. I don't really want to sell it and get an older truck 'cause this truck's body is in perfect shape and I doubt I'd find an older truck this clean for anything in the way of a reasonable price. Still though, I am on the lookout for a 72 (maybe) or 73-75 (more likely).
Well, I guess there is one more solution, I could just never run the truck in mud. That way, I can keep the smog pump on there and not worry about it sucking up muddy water! Thing is though, I bought this truck specifically to be something I wouldn't be afraid to get in the mud with (relatively simple electrical system=less stuff to go wrong). I already have a built ZJ that I am selling because I was afraid to mud it (I did once and ended up having to get a new motor!).

 

[k20]

hey bud, since you are in charlotte, go ahead and do the swap and then when inspection time rolls around....send me a PM, I have ways to get my AIR free big block to pass

 

[Russell]

I know you are a bit concerned about the swap happening or not, but I figured I'd go ahead and cover the standard transmission stuff right away

Yes, it is in fact possible to bolt and SM465 up to a 6.0L. In fact, it takes the same amount of work as it would with an NV4500.

I spent months reasearching differeny flywheels, bellhousings, pressure plates etc to see if I could peice a kit together that would have the proper geometery, but every time I found that I was more expensive than the kit that Advance Adapters offers.

It costs around 800 bucks, but comes with everything you need to bolt the thing straight together, including a good centerforce disk and pressure plate, I wouldn't suggest it any other way...

As far as the engine itself goes, you can buy used 6.0L engines from totalled trucks with less than 50 000 miles for like 1500 bucks, it doesn't get much closer to brand new than that. They usually come with all the electronics etc too

Another thing to consider, why not a Vortec 350 from a 96ish - 98 truck? They make lots of power too, and bolt straight in...

 

[nerraw117]

hey man if you need any help or anything im in charlotte also. i would love to see how this swap goes. i have been thinking of doing this or a vortec 350 swap

 

[blowedupmotor87]

Hey everybody, I appreciate the offers of help and the info! As to the Vortec 350 swap, that is something in consideration too, now that I know the new 6000 is out of the picture and the plan is to utilize something junkyard. Or, I may just wuss out all together when it comes to the swap. Yeah, I admit, it make this thread all sizzle and no steak but, reality is hitting. The 6000 swap would be super cool but, it may not be the best option, I am now realizing. One big issue, sure it'd be cool but, would it be worth paying a bundle to get somebody else to do it? Another, how am I ever going to learn anything about working on this truck if all I end up doing is paying somebody else to do it? I had a lot of free time this weekend (camping), and I thought about all the issues a lot.

I think I may have come to a solution: replace the current non-running motor with a new GM crate motor appropriate to my application (meaning 50 state legal replacement motor). Then, run the smog pump all the time except take off the belt and duct tape over the smog pump's intake whenever I pkan to hit deep mud (most places I go, I know I am either going to hit mud that day or, I am not, not much surprises). This way, I can swap the motor out myself (with some help) so, labor only costs some beer and pizza, etc. Plus, it would not involve transfering in a new wiring harness so, assuming my stock one keeps working well, I ought to be glitch free. I'll also get the satisfaction / learning experience of doing the work myself. Plus, the $$$ I was planning to spend on labor cost, I can put toward buying a trailer to tow the Jimmy on.

I am sorry to waste everybody's time with this post that went from being about a super cool swap back to boring replacement.I hate to have to keep the dang smog pump but, I think I may be better off doing so. Maybe some day, when I know what the heck I am doing, I can actually swap in something cool! Once again, thank you everybody for all the great info and the offers to help!

 

[Russell]

It isn't a problem man! This post has good info that others will find when they search for "6.0l swap" lol

Is there any way that you could make a snorkle for the smog pump?

 

[blowedupmotor87]

I thought about the snorkel idea but, looking at my smog pump, it looks like it sucks air from right around the pulley so, there'd be no possible way to rig one up. I wonder if there are other smog pump designs that would be more conducive to a small snorkel type set-up?