6BT Cummins for my Blazer !

[tarussell]

Pic's will come as soon as I can figure out how to do it - sorry for the delay. Just had to tell some fello CK5ers.

I have planned on doing a Cummins motor swap eventually but I made a big jump in the project recently. I just got the donor truck for the engine . It's a 1993 Dodge 2WD 3/4 Ton and is complete as can be. Should make the swap much easier having a running donor.

I already had a H.D. 465 trans with a 1-1/2" input shaft and cast-iron bell housing with provisions for mounts. Now I need to get the Cummins to GM bell adapter off of a "P" series Van and figure out which engine mounts I will go with.
I will post pic's as soon as possible of parts and piece's.

Tom

 

[afroman006]

Why aren't you using a tranny with overdrive? One of the biggest gripes most people had with 1st gen cummins with automatics behind them was the high gears (3.28 or 3.08 I believe) in the axle needed to keep engine RPM's down because of no overdrive on the tranny.

 

[tarussell]

This is a trail rig only . The most highway driving it will see is minimal use just to get to the trail. An O.D. tranny would be great , but not needed in this application. Besides , I already invested a few dollars in the tranny doubler set up .

Tom

 

[afroman006]

Kewl I guess for a trail rig a 465 would be just peachy.

 

[Rob 85K5]

How many years is this going to add to the build.

It will definetly be cool to see.

 

[imiceman44]

Pic's will come as soon as I can figure out how to do it - sorry for the delay. Just had to tell some fello CK5ers.

I have planned on doing a Cummins motor swap eventually but I made a big jump in the project recently. I just got the donor truck for the engine . It's a 1993 Dodge 2WD 3/4 Ton and is complete as can be. Should make the swap much easier having a running donor.

I already had a H.D. 465 trans with a 1-1/2" input shaft and cast-iron bell housing with provisions for mounts. Now I need to get the Cummins to GM bell adapter off of a "P" series Van and figure out which engine mounts I will go with.
I will post pic's as soon as possible of parts and piece's.

Tom

Do you know which number that bell would be?
I think I might have it here.
I think it's an SAE but haven't checked yet, can you find out the numbers that it should be I will check what I have .

 

[tarussell]

Please school me on that bell !!!! ?????

I have been getting conflicting info on the SAE bells . My plan was to use the Cummins 10* clocked bell to engine adapter but I wouold much rather use a bell like that.
Is that the 5-1/8" index bore and standard GM tranny bolt spacing?
Any info would be great !

Thnaks , Tom
c

 

[tarussell]

How many years is this going to add to the build.

It will definetly be cool to see.

Ha , ha !
Dan Dibble told John ( NEVRENUF ) and I that if we could not make it to Gray-Rock this year than he would dis-own us and not talk to us ever agin.
I know this will add to the time frame but it has to be done ! I have wanted to do this for many years and now have almost all the parts do do so.
Since we can't take it for a ride we will just have to come over and look at a bunch of parts in the garage .......


Tom

 

[tarussell]

I have been "googling" until my eyes hurt and still have not found any good answers on which SAE bell is needed. If anyone has info on this I would be greatful if you would share the knowledge .

Thanks , Tom

 

[crawlink5]

"AvantDiesel Salvage in Georgia The number is 478-552-1901.

tell them what you have and what you want.

I've heard that the 6BT is exactly like the 4BT, so ask Avant about this...

You need the adapter that mounts to the Cummins Block for the Chevy and then the Chevy sm465 hydraulic Clutch Bellhousing.

You need this pilot bearing http://www.applied.com/catalog/ma/catalog.do?e=10&s=6371579&r=0

Then get a clutch and pressure plate for a chevy from a local parts store.

They have really good prices. For comparison: A new flywheel was $700, I got one for $200 from Avant (they gave me $100 for my auto flexplate) and had it resurfaced.

I may be able to steer you to other info if you need it. I just put a 4BT in mine. [email protected] email all you want.

The above setup will put it on a 10 degree lean. Mine is at 10 degree and I wouldn't spend extra to have it straight. If you do go straight up I don't think you can use the sm465 - but instead use dodge stuff.

BTW: if you go dodge you can have a 13" clutch.

You could get a steel blowproof bell

Exhaust Parts http://www.mandrelbending-tubefabrication.com/pdf/TruckExhaust.pdf

 

[tarussell]

CRAWLIN5 --- Thanks for the contact info ! I have a phone call into them as I write this .

ICEMAN44 --- I am schooling myself on SAE bells at this very moment and I should be able to tell what is what shortly. I have a chart of SAE bells with dimensions - could you give me a close guess on the bolt pattern dimension ?

Thanks so very much ! Tom

 

[tarussell]

SAE sized flywheel housings are circular patterned. How would that be helpful to you, why do you want SAE?

I am learning on SAE bells so please exscuse if I am out in left field on this but this is my thought.....

There are SAE bells that GM used in C50/60/70 trucks with the T/D motors that had the tranny bolt pattern same as the 465 Muncie and spaced properly for the larger/longer 1-1/2" input. If I can find out if an industrial application flywheel cover that Cummins offered on the "B" series motors that had one of the SAE bell patterns than I might be able to use a matching bell that mates up to the HD-465's.
My other option is getting one of the 10* clocked Cummins flywheel covers and let the tranny tilt. I just want to know all of my options before I put down hard earned money on parts.
I am finding that most folks use the clocked cover or are going the NVG-4500 route and have not delt with the 465 options as much so info is slow in finding.

Thanks , Tom

 

[crawlink5]

You want to tilt the engine - not the trans. I think you will end up with an expensive way to take that 10 degree out.

 

[crawlink5]

After having my bb block chevy clutch totally come apart behind a 4BT at 3000 miles, never offroad, (night before last), I say go Dodge stuff for the 6BT so you can have a 13" clutch. Or go auto, Allison 1000.

The 4L60 is just an OD version of the TH400, is it not? If so there is no way in hell the th400 would ever even think about holding up to the abuse of offroad behind the 6BT.

th400 was marginal behind the 4BT and it had a special oil pan that strengthened the case. The 4BT would crack the case on a th400. Imagine what a 6BT would do to it. I would use the 4L60 behind the 4BT IF there was a way to strengthen the case.

If you stay with the sm465, get Centerforce clutch and PP - best bet. 1978 1 ton 2WD with a 454 engine, 12" clutch. I have the Part Number if you want it. Its just not in my hand right now. I called them yesterday to get it.

Well, time to get outta this chair and go get me a clutch and PP and get started. I'll post pics in this forum on the clutch sometime this evening so ya'll can see what happened to the clutch.

 

[tarussell]

I'll most likely tilt the trans if I go that way and get the bennefit of raising my front out-put yoke in the process. I can handle the fab work for the x-members and shifter issues.

The tranny I believe you are thinking of is the 4L80E ( the O.D. version of the TH400 ) . A 4L60E is the electronic version of the TH700R4. I'm far from being an auto fan in a trail rig so I'll do what it takes to put my 465 in behind this motor. I'll most likely end up with a three or four finger style PP and a ceramic puck type disc instead of the Center-force diaphram style PP.

Thanks for all the suggestions and info and by all means PLEASE keep it coming - I can't learn if we all do not discuss options and gain info.

Tom

 

[crawlink5]

I was thinking of the 80. I don't know these new autos as they weren't around in the 80s when I was racing.

 

[CrewCab59]

Cummins

Tom,
The engine mounts that are sold are made to keep the engine level ,so you have to lilt the trans.The tilt on a manual will be fine(auto) I wouldn't tilt.
The p-30 adapters run about $500.00 - $800.00 depends where you get them,they are hard to come by unless you buy the 3.9 and trans together.

I don't think I would use a stock clutch ,go with a LUk,SBC .I haven't had good luck with stock clutch.

I have started making a non tilt adapter but it's not done yet.

I don't know if you'll find the right SAE bell or not hard to come by as well,most Cummins had 4spd Allison auto's

Or you could go to a NV4500 .

if you have any more questions just ask.

CrewCab59

 

[tarussell]

Tom,
The engine mounts that are sold are made to keep the engine level ,so you have to lilt the trans.The tilt on a manual will be fine(auto) I wouldn't tilt.
The p-30 adapters run about $500.00 - $800.00 depends where you get them,they are hard to come by unless you buy the 3.9 and trans together.

I don't think I would use a stock clutch ,go with a LUk,SBC .I haven't had good luck with stock clutch.

I have started making a non tilt adapter but it's not done yet.

I don't know if you'll find the right SAE bell or not hard to come by as well,most Cummins had 4spd Allison auto's

Or you could go to a NV4500 .

if you have any more questions just ask.

CrewCab59

I have found a source ( thanks for the info CRAWLINK5 ) for the clocked bell adapter , flywheel and all hardware for six bills . I might have to go that route but I would like to figure out all the options on the SAE bells first.

Tell me more about the non-clocked bell adapter you are making ??? I like the look of your motor mounts and would like to learn more about this clucth cover/bell-adapter - Might make more sense to get your fabbed mounts and realted parts if they are available by the time I start bolting parts together......

Do you have any more detailed pic's of the positioning of the motor that your mounts provide ?

From what I understand I should have approximately two inches more fan clearance by using a 1989-1993 Dodge truck application water pump/pulley combo as opposed to the 1994 on up Dodge applications pump. Are your mounts made for the later pump positioning or the earlier design?

Thanks ! Tom

 

[CrewCab59]

Tom,
my non tilt adapter looks like the stock p-30 but the holes are off set so it keeps the engine level with the trans.( I don't have my shop up and going since I moved to TN.)

I have the mounts and the engine member in stock,the non tilt bellhousing isn't complete yet.

I just used GM 2 core rad and 94 dodge stock fan set up,I have about 2'' between my fan and rad.
There will be more space with the first gen cooling set up,but I don't know about the 2'' more!

My mounts fit the Cummins block 3.9,5.9 same bolt pattern.
The stock engine crossmember won't work ,I also make them as well!
What pics do you need of my mounts or engine?
The engine is placed so the head can be removed,push rods,head bolts.Also I move my engine a little forward so I have more room at the firewall!

CrewCab59

 

[tarussell]

Sounds good ! You answered the questions I had about motor placement in that last reply - so no need for other pic's ( I have looked at pic's you have already posted in other threads so they will tell me what I need to know also).
I have not compared the different model year pump/pulley set ups so I can not confirm the space distance but I agree with you that 2" seems like an aweful lot......If your set up works well than I should have ample room with the earlier model parts.

Thanks for the response and info !
I'll be in tuch with you about your mounts once my research is more complete.

Tom