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700r4 w Hydraulic (no wiring)

S

sfazekas

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I recently had a 700r4 built with Advanced Adapters kit for my 72 K5 Blazer with the TransGo hydraulic setup and wiring removed from an 87 trans. It will have the lockup (only) in 4th. This is how my transmission guy has it set up with a 2000-2200 stall converter. No wiring is needed for this setup.

http://act1.net/700r4

I have tried searching the forums for some feedback on using the kit to make sure I know what to expect, but most of what I find is not very recent at all.

I wanted to find out if anyone else is using a hydraulic kit instead of using the internal wiring etc. and find out if their transmission has held up and not get stuck in a lockup / find out how long this should be expected to last given that the TV cable is set properly and my trans guy makes proper adjustments.

I have the TV cable kit for my Holley carb. The np205 will be moved back and driveshafts updated for the new position... from what I can tell, besides maybe some adjustments for the trans oil lines, the trans shifter, and the trans tunnel opening, there won’t be too much else to be concerned with.

At this point, I mostly read posts on setting up / fixing the electric version, so who has some opinions on this?!!! :)
 
Following along. I have a 1952 Dodge that will be getting a 700r4 swapped in some day. I'd like to avoid extra wiring if possible and this looks like an interesting idea
 
the same trans shop also works on the builds for Classic Ford Broncos in Powell, OH. I didn’t know this until after I got the transmission back. Generally speaking, the Broncos guy sells his for quite a bit to the OSU (pro sports) crowd and Blue Jackets, so I’m at least expecting the quality of the rebuild should be pretty high.

Unfortunately, he didn’t have the space to let my truck sit while it waits for the drive shafts, so I may put the trans and drive shafts in myself and then get it on the trailer to get the final adjustments made at his shop.

I’ve had chats with a guy who has the electronic setup, and his trans went out twice. He then went to a professional to have it all (re)done correctly. I do not want to see that in my build...

Of course, who doesn’t like a couple videos?

This is from the day I bought it - the owner is driving...
This is the walk-around
 
Do you have any technical information on this? I've heard of putting a check ball above the solenoid so it's always locked in 4th gear, but doesn't this mean the converter is locked for all 4-3 downshifts? I'm thinking there is a more complicated valve body mod to make this work right.
 
if the unit is locked up and the rpm is low and you spike the brakes in a panic stop and stop the tires its possible to stall the engine . then you have a lot more to deal with since you just lost p/s and brake assist .

the military truck 5tons when they got upgraded to auto trans got abs just for this exact reason from what i have been told and read .
 
Yes. I’m pretty sure that’s the kit that’s in it.
No fear of wiring... I’d probably have done it, however this is my first transmission rebuild adventure, leaving it to the pro - I watched a rebuild video and knew it was more than I could handle, so I researched. I stopped by MD Transmission over by JEGS where I was working and Mark was very knowledgeable in the 700r4.

I wanted to have a 700r4 so I could drive on the highway without it screaming at me, however I’d heard and read enough about guys burning up their transmission due to incorrectly adjusting the TV cable. I told Mark about all of these concerns. He said he’d check the year it was and determine if any wires would be required. That’s how it came to be a hydraulic setup.

List of items include:
TransGo SK 700-Jr-B
TransGo 700-P Separator Plate
Dual Cage Input Sprag
High Energy 2-4 band HD Sun Shell
TransGo Shift Kit
Z-Pak 3-4 Clutch
Precision Converters of Ohio : 2000-2200 Stall HD
 
My 700, has a hydraulic lockup system. If you give it accel type throttle, it will run through 1st, 2nd, 3rd, lockup, 4th, lockup. If you come to a hill, it will unlock, and downshift, just like you think it should. It really is a great system. My trans has been in for 8 years, and I've had zero problems. I don't know the brand of parts, as I didn't pay attention, when it was built. LOL
 
Blue85 said:
So it's this kit? http://www.transgo.com/products.php?category_id=96&parent_id=31&product_id=170

Why wouldn't you want it to unlock when you apply brakes? I'm trying to understand the reason for the work and expense other than fear of wiring.
Click to expand...
It's not just wiring that is eliminated, the need for vehicle speed control or a vacuum switch is also eliminated.

As far as unlocking when the brakes are applied, if you have let off of the gas pedal, you get some engine braking by keeping the converter locked, before touching the brake pedal, and then if doesn't have to reapply the lock-up when you get back on the throttle. This means less clutch slippage from lock, unlock cycles in my mind.

500$k5 said:
My 700, has a hydraulic lockup system. If you give it accel type throttle, it will run through 1st, 2nd, 3rd, lockup, 4th, lockup. If you come to a hill, it will unlock, and downshift, just like you think it should. It really is a great system. My trans has been in for 8 years, and I've had zero problems. I don't know the brand of parts, as I didn't pay attention, when it was built. LOL
Click to expand...

I will vouch for how well it works in his truck. He has even let me drive it!
 
That’s great to hear! Not many threads here have hydraulic lockup info, so I’m hoping there are a few more guys who have the same to say about it. I don’t know what makes one kit lockup in 3rd or not but I think it’s based on what the builder does... I was told mine will only lockup in 4th. I don’t think he left anything out of the list but any questions I’ll relay to my builder and get answers.
 
6872xtc said:
It's not just wiring that is eliminated, the need for vehicle speed control or a vacuum switch is also eliminated.

As far as unlocking when the brakes are applied, if you have let off of the gas pedal, you get some engine braking by keeping the converter locked, before touching the brake pedal, and then if doesn't have to reapply the lock-up when you get back on the throttle. This means less clutch slippage from lock, unlock cycles in my mind.



I will vouch for how well it works in his truck. He has even let me drive it!
Click to expand...

Most 700's have a hydraulic lock-up setup from the factory. It's based on the current gear and the governor output, mostly. So to enter lockup you need both the hydraulic and electric conditions satisfied. Externally, electric is just vacuum and brake switch, but internally there is a 4-3 downshift switch. This combo covers all the bases. I think people get confused about vehicle speed because some aftermarket 700 lockup kits use an electronic speed control setup instead of just using the vacuum switch and factory valvetrain (how is this simpler?). The vehicle speed aspect is already covered with the factory valvetrain.

If the aftermarket valve used TV pressure that would solve the load aspect (does anybody know what it actually does?), but I still don't see how it unlocks for shifting or when you're on the brake.

I think shifting with the converter locked (high load) will induce a lot more wear than locking/unlocking with the brakes will (no load).
 
It doesn't shift with the converter locked, but I don't know exactly what happens with the fluid to unlock it before or during upshifts.
My thoughts are that if you are coming down a grade and touch the brakes, you loose the engine braking. Then when you get back on the gas, it has to lock again. I haven't seen one lock-up with the TV cable in idle position. I am not saying that it would be a tremendous difference in friction wear, just my opinion.

And I had forgotten that some aftermarket kits don't worry about vehicle speed. I haven't purchased any of them, but I have seen a few people buy the B&M kit with the speed sensor.

I do wonder about the availability of the vacuum switches and how tunable they are for vehicles with different camshaft profiles and gearing combinations. Could there be some vehicles that produce poor performance with just a stock vacuum switch?
:dunno:

If the Trans-go kit gives performance like @500$k5 gets, I wouldn't hesitate to put it in a retrofit application. I would think because of the parts in the linked picture, it would be simple to change it back to factory since it appears to be all in the valve body. But I may be missing something.
 
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