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'77 clutch pedal pivot slop

ramack

ramack

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I'm replacing the clutch pedal pivot hardware on my '77 which is very sloppy. The pedal is actually off my '79 which I swapped after buying it because of how sloppy it was. Now that I'm driving the '77 more, I bought hardware from LMC and putting it on this weekend. The problem is, what I have from LMC isn't any better than what I'm taking off.

LMC's part diagram
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The bolt(9) dia. from LMC is .432", 7/16 nominal. The ID of the replacement sleeve(11) is .480. That's almost 50 thousandths difference, a huge gap between the two. I was expecting to see the sleeve ID more like .440 at the most. The brake pedal "feels" fine, no play or slop. If I had access to lathe still, I'd just turn my own sleeve, but that's not an option. Surely the clutch pedal isn't suppose to be this sloppy???



From the pic below, when this was on the '79 some owner let the pivot get really bad before doing something. But...the new sleeve and bolt isn't going to be any better.
AK5AW5Sh.png


The new bolt/sleeve
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Not sure how much help this is:

i pulled mine apart and welded the factory pin up, and ground it back. It has a huge groove worn in from not having that wear sleeve. I procured new ones from the Help! rack at the auto store
The tolerances weren’t that close

been in service 20 years now
 
So....
I've taken off the brake pedal for comparison. Looks like this clutch pedal is toast. Time for craigslist...

I "think" what's allowing all the movement is because the way this pivot was repaired, the nylon bushing on both ends can't be used. These bushing also have a thrust washer function and since this pedal doesn't have these, it's allowing the slop between the bolt and sleeve to have full displacement.

Why do I feel like this little project is going to snowball, ha?
 
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Take pictures of both when you get that far. Always helpful to someone down the road
 
The image below is the clutch(right) and brake (left) pedals. The clutch pedal had worn out and had been sleeved to allow for the factory sleeve. Which really looks like a huge slotted spring pin. I haven't tried to knock out the sleeves in the clutch pedal yet, but it's looking like the parts from LMC can't be used. Right now, it looks like the ID of the clutch pedal pivot is too much of a goose egg and the nylon bushing wouldn't last long.


3QYjiT6h.png
 
I'd look for some flanged brass bushings or torrington needle bearings that would fit,if there is such a thing,even if I had to turn down the bushings on a lathe or by some other cruder method..

I hate plastic or nylon bushings--they suck...my lawn John Deere lawn tractor has crap plastic front wheel bushings ,they wear out so bad and fast the wheels look like a road grader in one season..
I dug thru my drawer of assorted bearings and bushings I found at a machine shop "going out of business sale", and found some needle bearings that fit the hubs and spindles perfect..as long as I grease them,the wheels will never lay over again..
I also used some of those bearings and thrust bearings on the steering mechanism and under the spindles ,it now steers much tighter and easier..

You might even be able to use brass pipe to make bushings or brass fittings..
 
What I'm seeing right now is that since the ID of the smaller sleeve is really close to the same diameter as the brake pedal and the replacement LMC sleeve, all the slop is from not having the thrust washers on both ends of the clutch pedal pivot. If I can figure out a way to get some kind of shim or thrust washer the axial motion would stop and the apparent rocking of the clutch pedal would stop. The problem is while it's in the vehicle, getting two thrust washers up there.

I'm going to hunt around for a pedal, I don't think I'll have much luck, but who knows. I did find a K5 that's being parted out on Craigslist, waiting for pics from the seller. It's an automatic trans. originally, converted to a manual so who knows what was used in the conversion.
 
I had an idea that might work and be less expensive than buying a used pedal. I'll find out Monday when steel stores open and can check material availability. I've been able to find DOM or CREW tubing with nominal OD and ID sizes that should just drop into the existing hole once the old material is removed. Should just be a matter of welding it back in. Hopefully I can find a drop of the size I'm needing locally next week.
 
This is the style of Torrington thrust washers I had that were used under the spindles on my lawn tractor..some call this mod "poor man's power steering",they do this on other tractors with front end loaders to help make it less difficult to steer..
torrington thrust washers.jpg

I used bearings similar to this on the front wheel hubs..

torrington needle bearing.jpg

I used a brass NPT pipe adapter on another project as a bushing,one that had a make 3/8" NPT thread on the OD and 1/8" on the ID--the OD was just a tad bigger than the part it needed to go in and was easily pressed in,and the ID was drilled to fit the shaft it rod\e on..
It worked better and lasted longer than I thought it would too,it didn't wear out the whole time the part was used..
 
I don't have my 76 C20 anymore, but it had a mechanical clutch linkage, not hydraulic adjust. Going from memory, there was a telescopic adjustment tube that allowed you to adjust for the clutch. It was similar to a turnbuckle but had forks at the ends. FWIW Joel norcal
 
Joel Wilson said:
I don't have my 76 C20 anymore, but it had a mechanical clutch linkage, not hydraulic adjust. Going from memory, there was a telescopic adjustment tube that allowed you to adjust for the clutch. It was similar to a turnbuckle but had forks at the ends. FWIW Joel norcal
Click to expand...
This isn't the front to rear clutch pedal "play" that adjusted by the mechanism you mentioned. This "slop" is a left & right motion of the clutch pedal.
 
ramack said:
This isn't the front to rear clutch pedal "play" that adjusted by the mechanism you mentioned. This "slop" is a left & right motion of the clutch pedal.
Click to expand...

I never noticed much play side to side with all the manual linkage k trucks i’ve had.... 3

If you can,t find the parts to fix the play hire a machinist to make some bushings for you and maybe add a grease nipple too. Shouldn’t be hard to do. A new sleeve a welder and a fresh bolt would do it.
 
max 02 said:
I never noticed much play side to side with all the manual linkage k trucks i’ve had.... 3

If you can,t find the parts to fix the play hire a machinist to make some bushings for you and maybe add a grease nipple too. Shouldn’t be hard to do. A new sleeve a welder and a fresh bolt would do it.
Click to expand...
I've never had any manual trans vehicle with this much clutch pedal side-side travel.

Yup, I have most of the replaceable parts, I just need to replace the main pivot tube and it'll be good, at least that's the current plan. Hopefully, I'll find DOM or CR tubing locally next week.
 
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Over the weekend I found a NOS arm on Ebay, $175. It's not worth that much to me, but I did make an offer for $90 which was accepted early this morning. I figured that for that price, I wouldn't be able to find any tubing in town and have it welding for less than that. So I bought the NOS arm. Before I bought the arm, I did make several calls around Denver, I wasn't able to find any tubing the size I needed. I didn't call Ryerson or EMJ as they usually have a minimum and a hefty cut charge.

This afternoon I spent a little more time online, found https://stockcarsteel.com/ which had the tubing sizes pretty cheap, no-mimimum. Because I didn't want to throw away the "damaged" pivot arm I'm going to repair it with the tube material I found on this link. Then have it welded...someday. I'll have a spare laying around, maybe sell it on Ebay or something. Either way, I'll draw up the dimensions and post the process as a how-to or something. I'm sure someone else is going to run into this eventually.
 
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Christmas in July, the NOS clutch pedal arm arrived. From the old arm I've cut off the pivot tube. Tube material is coming on Monday to repair the old arm.
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I havent looked at those real closely, but I remember years back my dads '74 clutch pedal was pretty much worn out, bad enough he actually decided to fix it. That truck had been on the Alaskan pipeline, and had seen hard service.

Anyway, for some reason I want to think he was able to cannibalize a brake pedal setup for the tubing? I dont recall all the details, but this was before LMC and the like.

Edit: whoa, I'm getting old. Posted about it 15 years ago! Dad just cannibalized the bushings from similar vintage cars, and that was back when you could still find 80's cars in the wrecking yards. :( But I also recall that he used more bushings (I guess they just slip inside the tube?) as he felt it wasnt supported very well. May have been egged out too, and maybe bushings further in would mitigate that.
 
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On one old truck of another brand. I used bronze pilot bearings as bushings. Need to turn down the od to fit tube. shaft was perfect.
 
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