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8 lug front swap...Not your average post.

P

Pure Insanity

1/2 ton status
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Culleoka, Tennessee
OK I did my front end today and EVERYTHING I have read says you need to swap out the spindle. Well I got it all apart, and the "new" spindles were messed up. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif The inner shaft bearing, (the little roller the shaft is supported on) was HASHED, and took the spindle w/ it. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif I FREAKED! I paniced! I cussed! /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif

I looked over at the spindles from the 1/2 ton 10 bolt. I rembered seeing on the reciept for the bearings, races and seal, that they were for 1/2 and 3/4 ton. I test fit the bearings and hubs, didnt believe it, broke out the micrometer, and they were THE EXACT SAME! /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif Well not exactly, the 10 spindles had good bearing in them and were useable. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif LOL!

All I did was swap out the backing plate and tossed on the 8 lug hubs!

On top of that when I was test fitting everything I had the old backing plates still on. I tossed the caliper on for grins and it LOOKS like it would only take less than 1/4in. off the rotor to use the old backing plates, and avoid grinding forever and test fitting wheels. I know I shoud have done it w/ a bare rim but I couldnt work it out that way. I HAD to have the tires mounted.

When I replace the rotors (when the time comes) Im gonna play w/ these ones (machine them down to a smaller diameter) and see what happens. I have been told its not possible but I wanna look into it anyway. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif Everything went on, and lined up, just the caliper retaing bolt was partially blocked by the rotor. Just for curiousity sake. Its only time. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

If I wasnt pressed for time today I would have taken some measurements and looked at it better, but I was WAY under the gun to finish it.
 
yah the 2nd gen 44 uses the same spindle between 1/2 and 3/4 tons. Same with the 10 bolts. I have the first gen 44 which has diff size spindles between 1/2 and 3/4 ton, which I didn't have the info for when I wrote that article. But I'm glad you learned about it the hard way /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

The rotors wont rub at all so why would you want to grind those any? It's only the calipers and backing plates that make contact.
 
LOL! You had to learn the hard way! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif You could have asked and I would have copied and pasted my reply to another member about the parts interchangability with the "first" and "second" desing parts. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
I'm not sure but I think he was referring to using the 1/2 ton backing plates and turning the 3/4 ton rotors down to fit.
 
Measure the diameter of the hub flange, or "hat", at the center of the rotor. If you move the caliper in 1/4-inch on a 3/4-ton rotor, then the inner edge of the brake pad may make contact with the hat. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 
I havent got enough time to reply to all this right now but Ill do so this evening.

Kwikly tho, I thought 1st and 2nd des. was flat tops or no flat tops. I have flat tops on the donor axle.

I did ask you Wes. I PMed you a few weeks ago. You even answered me. LOL! AND we discussed the spindles. That was the biggest reason I freaked. OH NO! Wes said I needed the spindles! AAARRRRGGGH! /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif

I was thinking of turning the rotor itself down. I test fit it and the bolt went thru until it hit the rotor.

Ill answer better tonite..... /forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
 
Well, I'm posting it again!! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
GM has two different types of axles: the "first design" and the "second design". For those who dont know the difference, the "first" goes from 73-76. The "second" goes from 77 to 91. Some differences are:

1. Backing plates are ALL diffferent. Both 1/2 and 3/4 ton for both designs are NOT the same thing. 3/4 tons are larger diameter than the 1/2 tons. There are currently 6 different types of backing plates. The 1/2 ton has the 73-76, 77-80, and 81-91. 3/4 ton is the same years, but only bigger around.

2. Bearing hub and rotors are different. There are 4 types. 73-76 use a smaller wheel bearing on both the 1/2 and 3/4 ton. The 1/2 ton bearing hub is an internal drive. 3/4 tons were available in both the internal and external drives. 77 and newer bearing hubs are the same size wheel bearing. 1/2 and 3/4 tons are all internal drives. The differences in the rotor diameter is the fact that the 3/4 tons are larger around than the 1/2 tons. This is why the backing plates are larger around than the 1/2 tons. If you use a 1/2 ton backing plate on a 3/4 ton rotor, the caliper will NOT even align up with the bolts. If the 1/2 ton rotor is used with the 3/4 ton backing plates, the caliper will NOT have enough pad contact with the rotor.

3. Spindles. 73-76 are one type only. They are "first design" small bearings. 1/2 and 3/4 ton spindles are interchangable. 77-91 spindles are "second design" and all interchangable between 1/2 and 3/4 tons. You cannot use a first design spindle with a second design bearing hub &amp; rotor. The hub will wobble in place. If the second design spindle is used with a first design bearing hub, the hub will not even go on at all.

4. D44 and 10B axle shafts are not interchangable. The D44 shafts measure: right - 36.13"
left - 18.31"
10B shafts measure: right - 35.46"
left - 19.15"

5. Steering knuckles. D44's have the infamous "flat top" knuckles on the passenger side. These are good for the crossover steering for where the steering arm is mounted on top of the knuckle after machine work and drilling has been done. The 10B knuckles have NO flat surface whatsoever. Machine work would be excessive to make the crossover work and therefore would be easier and cheaper to locate the correct knuckle off a D44.

All in all, when doing a swap like this, try to round up the parts off one truck to use on the other. Such parts to swap over would be: backing plates, spindles, bearing hub &amp; rotors, and if desired for crossover steering, the knuckles.

The knuckles do NOT need to be changed if you do not plan on the crossover steering.

It all boils down to this: D44 and 10B parts ARE interchangable from the knuckles out. Anything else from the knuckles in is NOT interchangable.

ALL calipers on both D44 and 10B are compatible with either axle. Even the first and second design axles are compatible with BOTH 1/2 and 3/4 ton calipers. So, whatever swap you plan on doing, you can retain your stock calipers.
When stepping up to the big D60, this is a whole different ball game. Nothing is interchangable from the D44 and 10B to the D60.

[/ QUOTE ]
 
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Nothing is interchangable from the D44 and 10B to the D60.

[/ QUOTE ]
Brake lines for the 10 bolt calipers fit the D60 /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Rene
 
Ok wise ass! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif I think we are talking about hard parts here. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
 
/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/pimp1.gif

Drag link is the same...steering stabilizer... /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif

Rene
 
Oh the hubs and rotors rubbed. Its amazing how much grinding I had to do to clearance just a little bit. The wheels (15x14 Barts) went on and spun, but I could hear them scrubbing. I ground, painted and fitted. Ground painted and fitted. Repeat as ness.

After about 4 times of mounting the 38s, on the 2nd side, I was getting tired! LOL! /forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
 
77 was the yr on the reciept I got, so it must be 77 when the sec. gen stuff started.

As a side note, were there any changes to the axle shafts themselves from 1st to 2nd? I need a shaft joint in the D44, (when the time comes that I swap IT in.) and when I called NAPA they told me they listed several different U joints for D44 3/4 ton.
 
When I fit everything up it ALL went together and the calipers went on. The bolt was blocked by the rotor. I would say maybe 1/2 of the bolt was blocked.

When the time comes to replace them, Ill grind on them w/ the front wheels spinning. (Ill take out the rear shaft, drop it in 4 hi and let the front spin while I grind on the rotors, and in theory they should come out true and round. /forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif) Ill have nothing to lose as Ill be just tossing them in the scrap pile anyhow. If it works out kool, if it doesnt, OH well. LOL! I will have to grind into the cooling fins a bit tho, so they will no longer be recessed. It REALLY didnt look like much to make them fit on the 1/2 ton backing.
 
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