I bet that felt good Mike! Looks good without the flintstone hole in the floor doesn't it?!
CK5
Register an account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members.
A '69 Build... "Brought to you by Don Juan Productions" Full index added to page #1
Thanks Greg. IIRC I'm running the same intake as you. The RPM airgap. I didn't have a chance to look under the hood again this weekend but last week when I looked, the valve cover and the top of the manifold looked to be different. I look again this week when I get everything back in.
I pay about $93.00 for a 20' stick. I think that I have bought 6 sticks so far. Can't really remember though. To tell you the truth, it has really nothing to do with the metal, it's all of the consumables that go with it. It takes a ton of flap disks, cut off wheels, roloc disks, beer and so on to make it happen.
I bet that felt good Mike! Looks good without the flintstone hole in the floor doesn't it?!
It did, until I took it out again.
Well, let me show you what 20+ hours this weekend will get ya. I first needed to get some metal bent for the weekend. The plan was to get some 1/4" stock bent up for both sides of the frame rail. I had them bend two sticks up at 48" long.
My cad drawing for the metal guys.
The two pieces fit into the frame perfect. I took a ton of time to get the holes drilled out for the four rivets (you can see them with orange paint on the heads) that I wanted to remain in the frame. The plan was to have these two pieces just long enough to where both of them would die directly behind the tub mounts on both sides. I figured this would give me the least amount of stress risers in the frame. Still have not figured out if I'm going to put four more bolts in on the ends of the channels. These four bolts (undetermined) would end up directly in between the front and back body mounts. Just not sure if they would end up giving more or less stress to the frame.
The rest of the weekend was building these two light weight objects.
The front and back mount directly to the sliders four bolt per corner. The middle mount will not have bolts through the frame. This middle mount will catch the adapter plate and the doubler plate. The forward and back mount will some how come into the game with being a crossmembers and extra support for the middle. I figured with three mounting plates per side, I could do anything I wanted down there and get plenty of triangulation and support.
I still need to do a lot of work on the two pieces still, but it will give you an idea of what I have going on. There still will be a piece of 2x2 under each plate for electrical and fuel line runs and the sides will be filled in the plate. It will almost look like four 6" x 6" electrical boxes inside the channel with a 2x2 running through them.
Here are the pics. I'll get more this week, just was trying to get as much done as possible.
Here you can see one of the remaining chunks that I started with on the bottom right.
and the winner for the weekend, my automatic drill press. Let me tell ya, that was a ton of holes to drill.
I have to pay $120-$150
great stuff as always man. more solid progress for us all to drool over.
Dude, your truck is gonna be so freakin sweet when you're done!
Never ceases to amaze me what guys on here are capable of with some hand tools and some ingenuity! Your rig ought to be nice and stiff once you finish
I really wish I had a drill press. All the holes I had to drill would have been much nicer on that
Never ceases to amaze me what guys on here are capable of with some hand tools and some ingenuity! Your rig ought to be nice and stiff once you finish
I really wish I had a drill press. All the holes I had to drill would have been much nicer on that
Thanks Guys.
Hopefully sweet, but probably heavy...
So how do you guys feel about mounting the doubler. I know that I'll have bushings under the boubler in at least 4 spots but how about mounting all of this to those 6 plates. Solid mount or a soft mount?
I've been through the monster boubler mounting thread a ton. It seems that it's about 50-50 on how everyone mount them. I could use some fabricator bushings on the plates, just not sure though.
It seems to me that from the factory they were all hard mounted to the frame with the two bushings under the tranny mount. This is more of the way that I'm leaning now, but accepting all ideas.
Dude, your truck is gonna be so freakin sweet when you're done!
:
Hopefully sweet, but probably heavy...
So how do you guys feel about mounting the doubler. I know that I'll have bushings under the boubler in at least 4 spots but how about mounting all of this to those 6 plates. Solid mount or a soft mount?
I've been through the monster boubler mounting thread a ton. It seems that it's about 50-50 on how everyone mount them. I could use some fabricator bushings on the plates, just not sure though.
It seems to me that from the factory they were all hard mounted to the frame with the two bushings under the tranny mount. This is more of the way that I'm leaning now, but accepting all ideas.
Mike,
Here's 1000 words....the quick way. Looks like the carb base is 4* normally....
-G
Here's 1000 words....the quick way. Looks like the carb base is 4* normally....
-G
Yep, that's how it looked to me last week. I had to squeeze my head under the fender to see as the hood is not hooked up now.
Once I get the inside framerail stuff all bolted together and install the transmission and transfer cases, I'll hopefully have a better idea of what I may or may not need to do to the passenger floor area. At that time I should be able to take some measurements for drivelines and what angle they are sitting at. I'll probably give Jess a call at that time to ask him what he thinks too.
I still don't think that I'll end up with a flat belly like you though. With the extra length of the doubler vs. that of your Atlas, it may just ruin my angles. I guess I'll have a lot better idea in a week or two.
Thanks for the pic.
Once I get the inside framerail stuff all bolted together and install the transmission and transfer cases, I'll hopefully have a better idea of what I may or may not need to do to the passenger floor area. At that time I should be able to take some measurements for drivelines and what angle they are sitting at. I'll probably give Jess a call at that time to ask him what he thinks too.
I still don't think that I'll end up with a flat belly like you though. With the extra length of the doubler vs. that of your Atlas, it may just ruin my angles. I guess I'll have a lot better idea in a week or two.
Thanks for the pic.
Well, a little progress this weekend.
I started up by welding in those four plates to my inner frame c-plate and got those mounted up. Those will be in there until they come out again and the center plate will be welded in. That won't happen till I really figure out how I'm going to mount the doubler.
Cleaned up and finally married the doubler to the Th400. It slipped together really nice.
As I had guessed, the doubler only went up so far before I hit the bottom of the tub. Some cutting and fab work will be needed on the floor area to get it up into place. The way it sits now, is about 4-5" lower than the frame. I did some quick non-scientific measuring and it looks like my driveshaft is about 32" long and 23.5 degrees. This will go up as I cut the floor and raise the drivetrain though. I didn't want to really move forward without a lot more research on angles and lengths yet.
So, still wanting to move forward with out really working on the doubler mount, I moved on to some of the slider bracing. I re-did the main "X" in between the slider braces and moved on to the back. I have been looking at this for weeks, wanting to get this piece in. It was all looking really good while I was under the truck. As soon as I got out, I think I puked a little bit in my mouth when I seen it. It does not go with anything on the truck. I need to take it out and start over. If nothing works, I may just go without it. I don't think that anything is going to shift anymore, with all that I have going on down there.
The outside look..
The other side without it. I think it looks a lot better than that strait piece.
hehe....triple sticks and Clint... bad a$$..
I started up by welding in those four plates to my inner frame c-plate and got those mounted up. Those will be in there until they come out again and the center plate will be welded in. That won't happen till I really figure out how I'm going to mount the doubler.
Cleaned up and finally married the doubler to the Th400. It slipped together really nice.
As I had guessed, the doubler only went up so far before I hit the bottom of the tub. Some cutting and fab work will be needed on the floor area to get it up into place. The way it sits now, is about 4-5" lower than the frame. I did some quick non-scientific measuring and it looks like my driveshaft is about 32" long and 23.5 degrees. This will go up as I cut the floor and raise the drivetrain though. I didn't want to really move forward without a lot more research on angles and lengths yet.
So, still wanting to move forward with out really working on the doubler mount, I moved on to some of the slider bracing. I re-did the main "X" in between the slider braces and moved on to the back. I have been looking at this for weeks, wanting to get this piece in. It was all looking really good while I was under the truck. As soon as I got out, I think I puked a little bit in my mouth when I seen it. It does not go with anything on the truck. I need to take it out and start over. If nothing works, I may just go without it. I don't think that anything is going to shift anymore, with all that I have going on down there.
The outside look..
The other side without it. I think it looks a lot better than that strait piece.
hehe....triple sticks and Clint... bad a$$..
I'm not sure what you are talking about with that comment.
just the brace on the end of the slider?
The outside look..
It's the tube at the end of the slider. I really don't like the looks of it from the outside. Maybe if it had the same radius bend on the end like the outside "step" maybe. I think that it just looks out of place for some reason???
oh, I see. it's a straight line, when you have nice curves everywhere else. gotcha.
picky, picky. lol!
I'm no expert, but it seems to me that if you put a bend in it, it kinda defeats the purpose there. with a 2x6 right there to take the beating, I'd guess you could just go without it if it bothers you that much. (although I wouldn't take my word for it. )
picky, picky. lol!
I'm no expert, but it seems to me that if you put a bend in it, it kinda defeats the purpose there. with a 2x6 right there to take the beating, I'd guess you could just go without it if it bothers you that much. (although I wouldn't take my word for it. )
I think if you paint it black you won't see it much, I'd leave it there. I think teh whole thing looks real good. Nice work again!
You guys maybe right on that bar. I did another 1/2 mile worth of circles around the rig last night and it may work out...I think that I'll add the other three corners and see how it all looks after. It's only tube and time after all...
So, now I'm in a pickle. I have the doubler in and really did a lot of measuring last night to see where I'm going to come out. The hopes were to cut the floor and get this thing up a little closer to the bottom of the frame rails. I guess that I'm not too worried about having a flat bottom as much as I need some more room between the valve covers and firewall. The way that it sits now, they are touching. Looks like I didn't take out nearly enough last time.
Here is what we are looking at. Sorry for the paint work, not very good at that .
I called Jess last night and gave him the run down on all of my measurments. Told him that I've been studying Bill Vista's page and was kinda confused on it. The first thing he said was "shake that stuff out of your head".
Anyways we ran through the numbers:
4.9* coming out of the doubler
-23.5* slope on my driveline
18.6* is my number for my driveline angle.
The max that he wants me at is 20*. Anything more, and I'll get about 1000 miles out of the u-joints.
So this puts me in a bind and I guess I have a couple of options. Just not sure one what one.
1) Do the dirty deed as Greg did and make a huge opening in the firewall for the BB. I'm not against this, just a crazy amount of work.
2) Push the engine forward 2". I've seen a few guys do this and it would solve a bunch of problems and help with the driveline angle too. Also, I know that COG comes into play somewhere in here. Don't know how much though?
3) Raise the engine and transfer to give me a flatter bottom. This would require firewall and floor work. I would need to raise the engine a crazy amount to really gain anything in the transfer case area and still have some good angles. Jess's quote of the day on flat bottoms, "Slap some 42's on her and learn how to drive".
4) Just throwing this out there. Install zero rates on the rear. This would give me more length on the driveline, but I think that it would almost equal out on the angle once I add the inch.. I would like to add these to the front and rear. I've had them sitting collecting dust for a year now. I think it would help with my tire to fender clearance and give me a little more then the ~104" that it's sitting at now.
One more question. Has the bellhousing on any transmission always not been truly square with the engine? I have never noticed it before, until last night. How can the engine be sitting at 4.65* down in the back and the tranny pan be at .60* down. I guess it makes sense, just never thought about it.
So, now I'm in a pickle. I have the doubler in and really did a lot of measuring last night to see where I'm going to come out. The hopes were to cut the floor and get this thing up a little closer to the bottom of the frame rails. I guess that I'm not too worried about having a flat bottom as much as I need some more room between the valve covers and firewall. The way that it sits now, they are touching. Looks like I didn't take out nearly enough last time.
Here is what we are looking at. Sorry for the paint work, not very good at that .
I called Jess last night and gave him the run down on all of my measurments. Told him that I've been studying Bill Vista's page and was kinda confused on it. The first thing he said was "shake that stuff out of your head".
Anyways we ran through the numbers:
4.9* coming out of the doubler
-23.5* slope on my driveline
18.6* is my number for my driveline angle.
The max that he wants me at is 20*. Anything more, and I'll get about 1000 miles out of the u-joints.
So this puts me in a bind and I guess I have a couple of options. Just not sure one what one.
1) Do the dirty deed as Greg did and make a huge opening in the firewall for the BB. I'm not against this, just a crazy amount of work.
2) Push the engine forward 2". I've seen a few guys do this and it would solve a bunch of problems and help with the driveline angle too. Also, I know that COG comes into play somewhere in here. Don't know how much though?
3) Raise the engine and transfer to give me a flatter bottom. This would require firewall and floor work. I would need to raise the engine a crazy amount to really gain anything in the transfer case area and still have some good angles. Jess's quote of the day on flat bottoms, "Slap some 42's on her and learn how to drive".
4) Just throwing this out there. Install zero rates on the rear. This would give me more length on the driveline, but I think that it would almost equal out on the angle once I add the inch..
I would like to add these to the front and rear. I've had them sitting collecting dust for a year now. I think it would help with my tire to fender clearance and give me a little more then the ~104" that it's sitting at now. One more question. Has the bellhousing on any transmission always not been truly square with the engine? I have never noticed it before, until last night. How can the engine be sitting at 4.65* down in the back and the tranny pan be at .60* down. I guess it makes sense, just never thought about it.
The bellhousing is perpendicular to the crank centerline, however, since the engine is tilted down 4 deg from the factory, the trans pan is usually made to sit level, so it is angled accordingly. Which is also why the carb mount on the intake is angled as well. The bellhousing and tranny pan surface are not perpendicular, no. Basically if you tilted the back up 1 degree the carb and trans pan would be level because that is factory. But it won't hurt anything where you have it.
Keep in mind it looks like you can tilt your rear pinion up a few degrees, this might help you out a degree on the pinion angle while still allowing the standard 2 degree lower pinion/dshaft angle for leaf springs.
Keep in mind it looks like you can tilt your rear pinion up a few degrees, this might help you out a degree on the pinion angle while still allowing the standard 2 degree lower pinion/dshaft angle for leaf springs.
Thanks Heath. It makes sense on the pan, just never thought about it until I was getting my measurements.
Makes sense on the rear too. I looks like I have a 5* difference between the two. If I move it up three degrees it should be at the 2* static position, correct?
Is there a rule of thumb, on how high you could put your pinion before anything bad would happen to it. I know when I was talkin' to Jess, he told me that any more than 18* could be bad. Not really sure what could happen though?
Makes sense on the rear too. I looks like I have a 5* difference between the two. If I move it up three degrees it should be at the 2* static position, correct?
Is there a rule of thumb, on how high you could put your pinion before anything bad would happen to it. I know when I was talkin' to Jess, he told me that any more than 18* could be bad. Not really sure what could happen though?
If you have your pinion up too high it could starve the pinion bearings of oil, it's usually not an issue with the 14BFF because the fill plug is in the housing in front of the tube, so as you raise it you raise your fill level too. However, too high and it can start to foam the fluid. Some people say to put a quart of trans fluid in there to prevent foaming, not sure if that actually works. I just fill it to the fill plug level and call it good, assuming it's not crazy high angle or something.
And youu got it, move it up a few degrees until the pinion is 2 degrees lower than the dshaft at ride height. This will also reduce your dshaft angle at the tcase proportional to the length ratio of the pinion length/dshaft length. (This is assuming you are using a CV type joint at the tcase).
And youu got it, move it up a few degrees until the pinion is 2 degrees lower than the dshaft at ride height. This will also reduce your dshaft angle at the tcase proportional to the length ratio of the pinion length/dshaft length. (This is assuming you are using a CV type joint at the tcase).
Thanks for the help, Heath.
I'll try to move that up tonight, but I still don't think that it's going to help me with the BB/ firewall clearance. I think that I need close to 5* to gain maybe 1/2" of clearance.
I'll try to move that up tonight, but I still don't think that it's going to help me with the BB/ firewall clearance. I think that I need close to 5* to gain maybe 1/2" of clearance.
Mike,
I feel your pain on all of this.....
You are going through a lot of the same struggles I did initially, and will probably come to a lot of the same conclusions. In a short wheelbase truck like ours, it's really hard to install a doubler and still keep the driveline angles looking good.
Compromises:
Belly clearance - What is your current height to the bottom of the framerail? 24"? 26"? If you pull some lift out of the truck you can improve the rear angle.... you'll rub more, but that's what the rocksliders were designed to do.
Drivetrain angle - You can tilt the whole combo more steeply to improve the rear angle, but you'll cost yourself even more BOA clearance at the xfer case.
Rotate the 14BFF pinion - You risk starving the pinion of oil, but a lot of guys just overfill the pumpkin and call it good.
Replace the Doubler with an Atlas - It's a really expensive way to gain a few extra degrees... but if you want to "buy your way out" it's an option.
High Pinion rear axle - Maybe a Ford 9"
Getting the pinion up higher is just as good as lowering the suspension down, but again it's a huge and costly change.
High Pinion with Portals - You'll get great operating angles, and the only thing you'll have to change is ........EVERYTHING ELSE!
Take a few (hundred) more laps around the truck and I'm sure you'll figure it out. My prediction is that it won't be any one item that you change, but it will be a series of relatively minor adjustments that will help pull several degrees of angularity out of that rear driveshaft.
-G
I feel your pain on all of this.....
You are going through a lot of the same struggles I did initially, and will probably come to a lot of the same conclusions. In a short wheelbase truck like ours, it's really hard to install a doubler and still keep the driveline angles looking good.
Compromises:
Belly clearance - What is your current height to the bottom of the framerail? 24"? 26"? If you pull some lift out of the truck you can improve the rear angle.... you'll rub more, but that's what the rocksliders were designed to do.
Drivetrain angle - You can tilt the whole combo more steeply to improve the rear angle, but you'll cost yourself even more BOA clearance at the xfer case.
Rotate the 14BFF pinion - You risk starving the pinion of oil, but a lot of guys just overfill the pumpkin and call it good.
Replace the Doubler with an Atlas - It's a really expensive way to gain a few extra degrees... but if you want to "buy your way out" it's an option.
High Pinion rear axle - Maybe a Ford 9"
Getting the pinion up higher is just as good as lowering the suspension down, but again it's a huge and costly change.High Pinion with Portals - You'll get great operating angles, and the only thing you'll have to change is ........EVERYTHING ELSE!
Take a few (hundred) more laps around the truck and I'm sure you'll figure it out. My prediction is that it won't be any one item that you change, but it will be a series of relatively minor adjustments that will help pull several degrees of angularity out of that rear driveshaft.
-G
