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Adding gelcoat to the fiberglass top

wazzabie

wazzabie

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Rather then painting the figerglass top on the K5 I'm going to add gelcoat to it. I need to add gelcoat inways since the fiberglass threads have worn thru the original gelcoat.

After the gelcoat I'm not going to paint it. I see no need to paint it since the gel coat is the same stuff that is used on boats.

Anyone else here justed useed gelcoat on the tops? How did you prep it? How did it turn out?

I'm not sure I'll be able to get the krinkle finish. That is ok. I may just buffer and add polish so that it shines. Anything would be better then what is would be now.
 
hey Dave.. got your e-mail, i'll reply here tonight... there's alot more to this than you may think...
 
I'm kind of confused on your intent. Putting gelcoat over the paint would give uneven color. You can't strip the paint chemically (AFAIK) without damaging the fiberglass. Will you sand through all of the old color and just end up with an off-white top?
 
ok... let's see if I can work thru this and not have it get all disconbobulated....


first.. you'd never be adding gel, like over paint, that's very bad... gelcoat is polyester based, it needs to be on top of other poly products, such as fiberglass..

ok, let's go over the pro's and con's of each.. which will lead to my thoughts on the subject....


gel - exceptionally durable to scrapes, chipping, scratches, etc... very, not user-friendly and labor intensive... and finally, poor UV protection.. ever wonder why every boat more than a few yrs old usually looks like chalk?

paint- poor durability to scrapes, chips, scratches, etc.... MUCH more user-friendly, and FAR less labor intensive... excellent UV protection... oxidize at a MUCH slower rate than gel, thus they stay shinier MUCH longer...


now... when Dave e-mailed me, i decided to go out back to take a peak and verify my thoughts... first all production fiberglass parts will ALWAYS have gelcoat on them... this includes K5 tops... what is initially on the fiberglass is gel.. now, i'm pretty certain my old 77 was straight white gelcoat.. which would explain the white streaky chalk stuff... smooth over the glass, with a texture sprayed on...

what i noticed last night on my 87 is much different.. it is white gelcoat on the glass (gel can also be ANY color btw).. but it appears that it was overcoated with paint to get the color, and texture... probably an enamel considering the timeframe... the texture on this 87 is much finer than my 77 was... it appears to be more of an added nonskid, like I would do with the nonskid of a boat.. basicaly add fine particles to the mix..

whereas the 77 was a "sprayed" non-skid.. where the gun, usually a hopper style, controls the texture..


with all that gibberish said.. and what i would have told you in the first place is, i wouldn't recommend gel... mainly due to oxidation factor...

lets leave non-skid out of the mix for now.. being you have glass showing, obviously the whole top will need to be sanded down pretty extensively and for ease, we'll say you go smooth...

for paint..... rip down with sander, nip out frays and resaturate those areas with resin.. sand/prep those areas.. fill prime whole top... sand with 320, paint...

gel - rip down with sander, nip out frays and resaturate those areas with resin.. sand/prep those areas.. gel - for smooth gel, YOU HAVE TO WETSAND AND BUFF EVERY SQUARE INCH.... buff...

the caps are the big point... whereas paint lays out shiney, glossy, done, other than a scuff and buff for dust, the gel requires extensive wetsanding and buffing..

now there are a couple of exceptions.... i use a product that really adds shine to the gel and eliminates much of that work, but it is kinda special process/product...

if we need to get into doing textures, let me know.. thats an entire subject unto itself..

in short Dave, just prep it like your gonna paint it... you need to resaturate the dry areas a bit with polyester resin (fiberglass), then sand the entire thing with like 150 to 180... prime the whole top.. paint....






or...



you could roll herc on it.....





or..



you could throw a bunch of sand in some rusto and roll it on there....


;)
 
ryoken said:
you could roll herc on it.....
Click to expand...

This works. Last summer, I helped a friend redo the topper on his '77. Two coats of Duplicolor truck bed coating used just about a whole gallon of the stuff, but the top looked 1000 times better.

His topper was black already, so it covered pretty well. You might need another coat or two on a white top.
 
ryoken said:
gel - exceptionally durable to scrapes, chipping, scratches, etc... very, not user-friendly and labor intensive... and finally, poor UV protection.. ever wonder why every boat more than a few yrs old usually looks like chalk?

paint- poor durability to scrapes, chips, scratches, etc.... MUCH more user-friendly, and FAR less labor intensive... excellent UV protection... oxidize at a MUCH slower rate than gel, thus they stay shinier MUCH longer...

for paint..... rip down with sander, nip out frays and resaturate those areas with resin.. sand/prep those areas.. fill prime whole top... sand with 320, paint...

gel - rip down with sander, nip out frays and resaturate those areas with resin.. sand/prep those areas.. gel - for smooth gel, YOU HAVE TO WETSAND AND BUFF EVERY SQUARE INCH.... buff...

;)
Click to expand...


ryoken - Thank you for the reply.

Did the fiberglass top come with paint originally? Maybe a dumb question but how can I tell if I have paint or gelcoat.

I'm also interested in your thoughts on getting the factory crinkle look.

I found this video on using Gelcoat. It looks so easy to just use a roller and roll it on. Is there some additive I could use to ensure that the UV light does not fade it or turn it yellow over time?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqcd7oQGnTQ

The fiberglass stands are pretty bad in some places.

What product do you recomend for the polyester resin (fiberglass)?

Well I just found this thread... which pretty much says what you are saying also. It really needs to be painted.
http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=245682&page=1
 
well, I'm thinking the early ones are straight gel, and later ones have an overcoat of paint when the top was colored... if you scratch it, and a thin initial layer is on top, like my brown 87 has, then it's paint... if the surface is consistently white thruout, it's gel...

it won't turn yellow, it chalks.. thus your white streaks...

gelcoat can stay nice and shiney, if it is consistently waxed... this becomes problematic when you throw texture into the mix...

yes, I can do a balls on perfect, textured, shiney, white gel top..... I do non-skid on boats all the time for a living after all.. but that is HIGHLY involved, including initial gel, then prepping that, spraying numerous test patterns to see what gun setup is needed to get a proper texture, then spraying gel with progressive percentages of Duratek in it to help the shine hold up,

Duratec_Hi_Gloss.jpg



then swapping to the texture gun for final app... definitely a job an amatuer can screw up... polyester is EXCEPTIONALLY unforgiving on potlife.. IT WILL KICK OFF PREMATURELY IF NOT CAREFUL!!! ask chief Brody about that one... ;)

or you can roll it on with non-skid particles in it.. this is a different looking texture, more sandpaperish... but a much easier app...


i still strongly recommend a standard quality fill primer and paint over it... you can add non-skid grit to the paint and roll or spray it on if you want the texture...

i would recommend any standard polyester resin for saturating the dried glass... fiberglass resin... like evercoat,



polyester-resin-246291.jpg





hi-bond is what i use lately


349-700197.jpg




but you'll want to thin it a bit with acetone, so it saturates better... just hit the dry, fluffy areas with a grinder with some 36 grit to open it up and rip off any straggling hairs... then put a coat of that on, dabbing it in with a paint brush with help "wet out" the dried glass...
 
ryoken said:
i still strongly recommend a standard quality fill primer and paint over it... you can add non-skid grit to the paint and roll or spray it on if you want the texture...
Click to expand...

Ok I'll paint it and add the resign to the spots that need some work. When I sand down the top how far should I go? Do I need to take it to the fibers? Also what should I use as a primer? I'll just rattle can it with white for the final finish.
 
I realize Ryoken is the resident expert on this type of stuff. but I believe your over thinking it. Check my link out, just get some good Marine Paint. unless you have cracks, just scuff sand it, get all the loose stuff off and put some heavy coats of rolled on paint. Use a textured roller and it will come out very nice.
 
in most cases, I would agree, a good thorough scrubbing with soapy water and a scuffpad, dry, have at it.. but if he has dry glass hairs showing, I would suggest he at least repair/spot prime those areas... some heavy coats of paint may mat it down decent for a bit, but those areas will be problematic pretty quick probably....

Dave... maybe repair the bad areas, roll a qrt of rusto primer over the whole thing, sand that a bit, roll a qrt of color on... cheap enough...
 
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