Air Hydro vs. Fluid Hydro Bender conversion...???

[Greg72]

Calling it "Hydro" for an air system is a misnomer I know...

I've seen plenty of ProTools M105 conversions using fluid-based rams, but I was just sent a link that uses a much simpler looking air-based ram from Harbor Freight:

Air Ram:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=94562

Ram Mount:
http://copperheadfab.com/index.php?action=productview&productid=162


Conceptually, it's the same setup on the bender... just a set of stout brackets that replace the racheting arm with this long stroke ram.

What's the downside of using air? I realize that it won't have a "retract" built in like the fluid-based rams do. I've got a huge 4-cylinder upright compressor already, so I'd like to maximize that investment and find more tools that can make use of it.

Is it a speed issue? (air = slow, fluid = fast)??


The entire conversion (with brackets from Copperhead Fabrication) can be built for about $150. That's really tempting if it works well....

 

[mr250twostroke]

Calling it "Hydro" for an air system is a misnomer I know...

I've seen plenty of ProTools M105 conversions using fluid-based rams, but I was just sent a link that uses a much simpler looking air-based ram from Harbor Freight:

Air Ram:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=94562

Ram Mount:
http://copperheadfab.com/index.php?action=productview&productid=162


Conceptually, it's the same setup on the bender... just a set of stout brackets that replace the racheting arm with this long stroke ram.

What's the downside of using air? I realize that it won't have a "retract" built in like the fluid-based rams do. I've got a huge 4-cylinder upright compressor already, so I'd like to maximize that investment and find more tools that can make use of it.

Is it a speed issue? (air = slow, fluid = fast)??


The entire conversion (with brackets from Copperhead Fabrication) can be built for about $150. That's really tempting if it works well....

Ive got that on my ProTools but have nothing to compare it to fluid wise.

It is not fast, but steady. I imagine its faster with consistency as opposed to manual and definately easier on my approaching 40 yr old joints. Makes for feathering the degree ring easy too. My decision was easy when another member, Reddog64 sent me a pm saying I would be getting a package from Copperhead (guess he wants in on the bending). Add my 15% off HF coupon and the decision was easy. For the do it yourselfer, well worth it. For the daily fabricator, a fluid ram setup is probably a better choice. Retracting the ram is easy but would be easier if it were built in. Makes me work alittle though which is a "good thing". Im gonna bend alittle tube today so ill try to time the proceedure and post up tonite. Im youtube illiterate, must be an age thing. Hopefully some one with a fluid ram will do the same.

 

[BlazerGuy]

I just ran across this over on PBB
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=670142

 

[dremu]

Well, nomenclature-wise, it's "air over hydro", vs I s'pose "electric hydro pump", right.

I've seen an electric hydro pump in action (albeit not a Pro-Tools). I was mildly aroused as it's truly amazing, especially when operated by a clueful, experienced person. (This was after you'd moved back east, Greg, or I woulda asked you

Anyway, for your purposes, I would say the only difference is the lack of automatic retraction -- as I recall the electric pump pushed a hydraulic ram remarkably like those used for hydro steering.

Don't think I've seen bidirectional air-over-hydraulic rams, though I s'pose if you could find pneumatically operated hydraulic pumps sold on their own, you could build one easily enough. You'd use the same bi-directional style ram, and an awful lot of plumbing. =))

Speed-wise, I don't think anything hydraulic is fast, but I imagine the rams and jacks both come in various speeds, so I suspect it's an apples and kumquats comparison.

ANYWAY, I'm still collecting parts to build my bender when I have extra money and time ... but I bought that very air-over-hydro jack, as there's no way my lazy butt is gonna manually bend tubing.

-- A

 

[mr250twostroke]

I just ran across this over on PBB
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=670142

Good link. Looks like ill be building a stand. Got the material and casters already. No need to bolt down since it pushes against itself and the portability... nice . Although, I wonder how removing the tube would work? I have to give it a pretty good jerk to release the tension on the die .

 

[4X4HIGH]

Greg, from the reading i've done over on Pro Tools and other websites the electric over hydraulic is about twice as fast as the air over hydraulic. I think i would rather be slower and not over bend a piece IMO.

 

[mr250twostroke]

Greg, from the reading i've done over on Pro Tools and other websites the electric over hydraulic is about twice as fast as the air over hydraulic. I think i would rather be slower and not over bend a piece IMO.

I also dont have to say "hold my beer and watch this" since I have a free hand. The slower speed is offset by beverage in hand time .

 

[cybrfire]

mine is air over hydraulic with a foot treddle pump. Works easily enough but slow. Sometimes the slow is nice for that extra 1/2 a degree.

on another note, use a double acting cylinder and put your air in on the retract side and just leave it hooked up. When you release the hydraulics the air will return it for you. Just a simpe T in the air pressure line will work.