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Alternative powered K5's?

blowedupmotor87

blowedupmotor87

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Since the Electric K5 thread is getting cluttered with a bunch of different info and arguments for other alternatives, lets discuss them here! I'll start, I'll switch my post over!


I would really like to see projects like algae bio diesel receive the kind of funding that hybrid technologies do. A hybrid still has an ICE and has a whole ton of other issues with all the batteries, etc. Why not go to fuel that can be renewably produced?

Okay, here's why hybrids piss me off:
1.All the greenies claim they save the environment by owning brand new hybrids but, look at all the energy/materials/pollution from the manufacturing of a new vehicle!
2.Hybrids do not end our dependency on fossil fuels, they simply extend the length of time that we can continue to be dependent on them by using less per year for more years. Ultimately they will be obsolete.
3.There are still issues with the recyclability of the hybrids batteries and vehicle materials at the end of the battery or vehicle lifespan. Also, what exactly can be done with all the acid/base (depending on battery type).
4.Contrary to what politicians and brainwashed greenies seem to think, hybrids are not enough to solve all our problems! No matter what, if you try to go with only one solution, it will have many drawbacks in the long term!
 
If I were trying to build the ultimate mileage multi purpose K5 (and had a BIG budget!:D) Here's what I'd be looking at:
3.9 cummins (they can easily get great mileage!) also, convert it to run on biodeisel (cheap and renewable fuel)
No A/C, aluminum radiator, fiberglass hood, and battery relocated to rear cargo are to reduce some frontend weight to compensate for the Cummins swap)
NV4500 5 speed manual (gives ya overdrive for mileage and low gearing for offroad)
NVG 241 t-case with SYE (light weight and 2.72:1 low range for offroad)
10 bolt frontend with manual hubs, ARB and beefy axles
Ford nine inch rearend (so ya have a beefier non-C clip rearend that's still light weight) with ARB beefy axles and disc brakes
2&1/2" lift (for a bit more engine clearance (also mount engine/trans/t-case up about 2" higher than stock (cutting floorpan to fit) for axle to oil pan clearance without a lot of lift) AND set back the drivetrain a few inches to help offset the added frontend weight (to alleviate the need for a dana 60 front swap for durability issues)
255/85R16 tires (about 33" around for clearance offroad but, narrrower to help mileage)

That'd be my idea, simple, easy to fix, good mileage, alternative fuel capable and some offroad capability too!:D
 
blowedupmotor87 said:
If I were trying to build the ultimate mileage multi purpose K5 (and had a BIG budget!:D) Here's what I'd be looking at:
3.9 cummins (they can easily get great mileage!) also, convert it to run on biodeisel (cheap and renewable fuel)
No A/C, aluminum radiator, fiberglass hood, and battery relocated to rear cargo are to reduce some frontend weight to compensate for the Cummins swap)
NV4500 5 speed manual (gives ya overdrive for mileage and low gearing for offroad)
NVG 241 t-case with SYE (light weight and 2.72:1 low range for offroad)
10 bolt frontend with manual hubs, ARB and beefy axles
Ford nine inch rearend (so ya have a beefier non-C clip rearend that's still light weight) with ARB beefy axles and disc brakes
2&1/2" lift (for a bit more engine clearance (also mount engine/trans/t-case up about 2" higher than stock (cutting floorpan to fit) for axle to oil pan clearance without a lot of lift) AND set back the drivetrain a few inches to help offset the added frontend weight (to alleviate the need for a dana 60 front swap for durability issues)
255/85R16 tires (about 33" around for clearance offroad but, narrrower to help mileage)

That'd be my idea, simple, easy to fix, good mileage, alternative fuel capable and some offroad capability too!:D
Click to expand...


You don't have to worry about the heavy engine that much, the 4bt isn't that heavy, I had a 5.9 in my K5, it still had the D44 front and 12bolt rear.
I got 30mpg with te stock engine 170 hp/ 410 lbs tq.
I did put the batteries in middle of the truck between the seats.
I had an SM465/205 but if I had to do it over which I will, it will have a 6 speed and a 241 or 272 tcase.
I also will move the cab and the engine back 4".
You will not need that for teh 3.9 because it's shorter.
I also had a 2.5" lift and 35" tires with heavily cut fenders.
I can not tell you how well it performed with locked font and rear, it was unstoppable, and worked on hill climbs, rocks, mud, even water filled mud pits that were up to the door handles, nothing stopped it.
The only thing that bothered me a bit was the smell, it was my daily driver and it smelled bad so I smelled like diesel smoke all day at the office.:rolleyes:
I miss that K5 now you stirred up some memories, I need to build something back around that engine, it's the only thing I kept :D
 
Re: renewable fuels

blowedupmotor87 said:
Since the Electric K5 thread is getting cluttered with a bunch of different info and arguments for other alternatives, lets discuss them here! I'll start, I'll switch my post over!


I would really like to see projects like algae bio diesel receive the kind of funding that hybrid technologies do. A hybrid still has an ICE and has a whole ton of other issues with all the batteries, etc. Why not go to fuel that can be renewably produced?
Click to expand...

Regarding renewable fuel, right now I think Ethanol is garbage. The price from what I have ever seen is ridiculous. I saw it at no better than $1 (magazine photo) cheaper than regular gasoline when gas was posted at 4.20 a gallon.

The whole energy cycle isn't efficient enough yet. Corn ethanol is the worst that I have read about with the production efficiency near 1:1 when comparing the energy it takes to make it versus what you get out of the final product.

I couldn't run it if I wanted to. According to Consumer Reports, in Georgia as of last year, we have 5 or less stations selling E85 because they haven't come up with a way to pipeline it yet. On the good side, they are working on a cellulosic ethanol plant in Georgia that is rumored to produce fuel at a 10:1 ratio, which should significantly help with the cost. I think their fuel was some farmed tree or something like switchgrass. Seems like trees would take too long to develop, but switchgrass sounds promising.

If you look at the cost of E85 and the reduced power output and resultant mileage, you approach break even with regular grade fuel.

This isn't to say that I'm against ethanol. If they can get it to the cost and efficiency to match fuel (or hey why not sell it for 25 cents a gallon) I'd run it no problem, I just don't think it's there yet.

I don't think that hybrids are the end solution, but I think the auto manufacturers are missing out on what they can do with diesels and hybrid technology. If you check out the Loremo and it actually goes into production I'd be on that like stink on a pig. I think it would suck to try to throw the kids in the back of it, but for my 80 mile round trip commute it would be awesome. I'd link the Loremo page on wikipedia, but I'm still under my 15 post limit.

What we will need is wind + solar. If I had a million bucks to invest, I would throw it at solar.
 
The article said 0 to 5. I'm thinking zero. I've never seen/heard of it anywhere.
There is a site called e85prices dot com that lists no prices in the area.

I wonder how much E85 I could grow in my back yard. It's small enough that I wouldn't even need a tractor!
 
The concept of a hybrid vehicle is not to eliminate our dependencies on fossil fuels but rather to decrease them. These systems are very efficient because DC motors yield torque beyond what a gasoline or diesel combustion engine can. In turn they can spin less RPM and thus use less energy. This is the reason hybrid vehicles obtain roughly 40-50% better fuel economy than their non-hybrid counter parts. I by no means consider myself a greenie, but hybrids do make sense. There is also a ton of energy lost in a vehicle through brakes and suspension that can be harnessed to propel the vehicle at a later time if it is electrically propelled. This is not new technology, just new to passenger vehicles. Railroads having been using diesel-electric hybrids in the US for about 30yrs in all freight operations and many passenger operations. It is a proven technology and it is without question more efficient than non-hybrid propulsion. VW recently produced a prototype diesel-electric Jetta that obtained 120-140mpg in Europe. It's predecessor, the Jetta TDI does about 42mpg. That is roughly 70-80% less fuel consumption. It does not take rocket science to understand 70% reduction. Would you like to buy 70% less fuel? Kinda a no-brainer and this is where hybrid technology stems from. Certainly not the answer, but it does buy us time. It also gives us time to refine the efficiency of these systems...IE electric propulsion in the advent that we turn to that at some point in the future. No matter what the case it, if we are burning bio-fuels, or CNG, or diesel, or hydrogen, hybrid technology will improve our effieciency 50-80%.

Now, on the concept of fossil fuels, we truly have very little options. Electric (from wind, hydro, or solar), bio-fuels, and CNG. Electric from renewable sources is the optimal answer because it is zero emissions. Unfortunately the technology is just not at a level for success yet. One great issue with it is supplying the entire US with renewable electricty. Realize that electricity only travles so far in electrical lines before a great deal of energy is lost (hence the need for transformers). The problem is, the places we can make vast ammounts of renewable electricity are generally a good distance from places that would use it. Also, not all parts of the country are endowed with the resources to do so. In other words the issue with renewable electricity isn't in the making of the energy it is in the transmission of the energy.

Bio-fuels and CNG are also promising but they do not offer zero emissions, and they do require retrofitting the entire US fleet of automobiles. This is a great exspense. Also, neither fuel is available nationwide.
 
pseudomike said:
Now, on the concept of fossil fuels, we truly have very little options. Electric (from wind, hydro, or solar), bio-fuels, and CNG. Electric from renewable sources is the optimal answer because it is zero emissions. Unfortunately the technology is just not at a level for success yet. One great issue with it is supplying the entire US with renewable electricty. Realize that electricity only travles so far in electrical lines before a great deal of energy is lost (hence the need for transformers). The problem is, the places we can make vast ammounts of renewable electricity are generally a good distance from places that would use it. Also, not all parts of the country are endowed with the resources to do so. In other words the issue with renewable electricity isn't in the making of the energy it is in the transmission of the energy.
Click to expand...

Electric is by no means a clean answer as most people believe it to be. Right now the west is the leader in hydro electric and they are already maxxed out. Wasn't long ago we had rolling blackouts. In the east the main power source is burning coal and nuclear. Sure if we all ran off of hydro, solar, and wind power all would be good but IMHO it's unrealistic. It takes massive amounts of space for a wind farm to produce and even then it doesn't make much power. Solar is VERY expensive and hydro power takes huge projects and massive amounts of money to get everything built. Honestly if all three of these renewable sources where everywhere we looked It wouldn't be enough. What do you think will happen when people hear electric is the way to go and they all switch to electric cars. The demand just went WAY up. It could happen, but it won't be in our lifetime.

I think hydrogen is the way to go. Don't know if they've found a safe way to store it yet though.

Biofuels were a start but they are not the answer IMO. If all the farms in the u.s. started to grow nothing but corn for ethanol it would only make up for 8% of our fuel demands.
 
I agree as far as corn not being the answer, I really believe there is a future with the algae bio diesel, the yeilds compared to other crops is amazing
Gallons of Oil per Acre per Year
Corn . . . . . . . 15
Soybeans . . . .48
Safflower. . . . . 83
Sunflower . . . 102
Rapeseed. . . 127
Oil Palm . . . . 635
Micro Algae . .1850 [based on actual biomass yields]
Micro Algae . .5000-15000 [theoretical laboratory yield]
 
The problem with hydrogen is is bonds to nearly everything. While it is the most abundant material on earth, and hydrogen gas does burn well, it is rarely found in pure state. This means you have to break the bonds which requires energy input. Generally this is performed with heat, caustics, or electrolysis. Anyhow, you get the idea and it is not renewable. There is no such think as a perfectly efficient process so even if you found a good way to produce hydrogen it is very likely that you would some day have a deficit.

There are an abundance of renewable resources on this planet we simply need to learn to harness them. Gravity and kinetic energy (falling water or head pressure) heat found in volcanoes and plate tectonics, solar power, weather, winds, and all sorts of other natural motions. We just need to think outside the box and put or heads to it. For now....like always...we will continue to burn fossil fuels. I'd personally like a breeder reactor in my truck but I'm also a truck type of guy.
 
Lessen our dependence

At some point, I am confident that we will have the technology to run our vehicles on other than fossil fuels. In the mean time, the most efficient use of our energy/time is to find ways to reduce our use of fossil fuels.

I've got a WVO conversion in my 6.2L that works pretty well. It is a cheap system, and I still maintain the original (diesel) fuel system. The only problem I have is in the winter here when it is difficult to keep the oil warm enough to get through the system. There is an abundance of restaurant waste oil, at least until someone catches on and starts charging and taxing it. Finding ways to use waste materials as fuel is the next best thing to discovering renewable fuels in my opinion.

Besides, most people prefer french fry exhaust to diesel fumes!
 
cjohnson said:
At some point, I am confident that we will have the technology to run our vehicles on other than fossil fuels. In the mean time, the most efficient use of our energy/time is to find ways to reduce our use of fossil fuels.

I've got a WVO conversion in my 6.2L that works pretty well. It is a cheap system, and I still maintain the original (diesel) fuel system. The only problem I have is in the winter here when it is difficult to keep the oil warm enough to get through the system. There is an abundance of restaurant waste oil, at least until someone catches on and starts charging and taxing it. Finding ways to use waste materials as fuel is the next best thing to discovering renewable fuels in my opinion.

Besides, most people prefer french fry exhaust to diesel fumes!
Click to expand...

Here already they did catch on to this and the restaurants are selling it to companies that collect it and then refine it and sell it back to people, or use it themselves, the only way to get it here is to find a small shop that hasn't caught on and try to make a deal with them for exclusivity.
:rolleyes:
 
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