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Alternator Whine Through Radio/Speakers...

PWagon

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I have a '86 K5 Blazer with an 03 5.3 LS engine. I've been battling a whining sound through my speakers for a long while now. Interestingly the noise changes pitch as the rpms increase/decrease. I've replaced the head unit, all speaker wire, and I even ran new dedicated wire from the battery to the stereo head unit. I've added new ground wires from the engine, cab, and even the alternator back to the battery yet I still have radio noise.

Long story short, I discovered that by removing the power wire off the back of the alternator (the one that charges the battery) my noise goes away. I was "convinced" it was a bad alternator, so I ordered new one off Amazon (ACDelco 335-1086). After I installed the new alternator, I still have the same radio noise. I've about reached the "end of my rope", and I'm about ready to "cash-out" and sell the truck. I can't take this noise anymore! It's driving me nucking futs!! Can anyone suggest how/why the alternator would still be causing this noise? I've read that a bad diode in the alternator might cause this, but I can't imagine a brand new alternator would just happen to have a bad diode too. Thoughts?

alternator.jpg
 
No,it is a fairly common issue..
You can add an RF choke to the power wire on the stereo to filter out the whine,and a capacitor to the alternator output..

I had to use one on my '72 K5,for some reason that truck had the radio whine like a siren at low volume,when in all the other vehicles I had it in,it worked fine..
Radio Shack and car stereo places sell them..they look like a small transformer..

First you might try adding a ground strap from the stereo chassis to a good ground,or right to the negative battery post..sometimes a poor ground makes things like this happen..
 
I've tried 3 different noise traps and suppressors, but it makes the stereo sound like crap. The filters are like band-aids, and I'd rather fix the root issue.
 
Well,I don't know what else to add...maybe run the amp & stereo off a separate battery isolated from the rest of the truck?--then you'd have to charge it daily,or have a switch that lets the battery charge when your not using the stereo..

Fordum might have some better insight on this--he's a lot more electronically educated than I am..
 
If any of your RCA runs are near the power wires you'll get noise.
 
Yep, you are correct. I re-ran all power on the far right (passenger side) of the cab. All RCA (and other speaker) wires are on the far left (drivers side) of the cab. I even upgraded to the triple shielded RCA cables to eliminate any interference.
 
I've had this issue twice and both times it was the cables and I was able to verify it by temporarily installing a set of RCA's bypassing the ones previously ran.

In theory it could also be the head unit or the amp. Do you have spares of either to narrow this down? Is the equipment new or used?
 
Well you have already narrowed it down pretty far. It's directly connected to whatever that wire powers from there. Where does that wire go? Battery? Starter?
 
Wow, talk about your blast from the past.......
I think it has been decades since I had to fix alternator whine. I'm actually going to have to think about this one. OK, first of all, is the whine still there with the volume turned all the way down.
That is the most common type, and means that the noise is almost certainly coming in through the power supply. In other words, its bypassing all the amps and volume control. If so, can you run the radio briefly without the amp. It would be nice to isolate which component is letting the whine in.
Remember, alternators put out three phase AC current. This is rectified by the diodes to dirty DC. The battery actually acts as a partial filter to clean it up some.
The problem with troubleshooting this online, is the number of ways the noise can get in.

I'm going to throw a couple of thoughts out there. First, Grounds. By far the most common cause of alt whine. Do not daisy chain your grounds. Run heavy seperate grounds to the radio and amp and tie them together at the same point.
Try running the amp with no input. First take the RCA cables off the input to the amp, and see if there is noise. If so, try plugging the same cable into both inputs. In other words, short the inputs together. Use as short a piece of cable as you can. Keep checking for noise after each change. We are trying to do two things at once. I don't like doing it that way, but we are limited by the medium we are using.
I am both trying to find out which unit is introducing the noise, and how it is getting in.
This is a wild one. I have only ever seen it once. Turn off the radio and the amp. MAKE Sure they are off. Do Not power up the amp with no load. Then disconnect the speaker wires, lay them where they can't touch, and crank the engine.
Its very rare, but I once found the speaker wires were being run alongside a heavy current wire, and were picking up the whine after the radio.
If not, then hook the speaker wires back up before doing anything else.
I know you said you replaced the cables, but check the RCA connectors on the amp and radio themselves. Make sure they are clean and not loose.
Also, disconnect the antenna from the radio. If you lose the noise, run a separate ground wire from where the radio ground is hooked up, to where the antenna is hooked up. Fender, wherever. The antenna cable is grounded. If where it gets its ground is a slightly different potential from the radio, you get a ground loop. If its grounded to your fender, then the fender may not have a good ground.

If none of that works, try this. Crank things up, set the volume control for maximum whine, and start moving stuff. Wiggle the wires, connections, touch things, try to make the noise better or worse.
If it changes, notice what causes it to change, and let us know. I'm certain I could fix it if I were there, but hopefully we can do it this way.
 
You guys are doing a great job with recommendations, and I appreciate it. Unfortunately I've tried them all.

The head unit is brand new. The problem exists with the old unit too.
I've replaced the alternator with a new AC Delco 335-1086 (off Amazon).
Unplugging the antenna makes no difference (whine remains).
I have a toggle switch under the dash to turn the amp on/off. The whine is only present on amp powered speakers.
I've unplugged all amp speaker wire and can test with a 2' test wire and speaker (sitting next to amp - whine remains).
I've tried running new RCA cables from the head unit 3' off the floor (over my shoulder) to the amp under the seat, and the whine remains.
With the volume all the way down, I still hear alternator whine through speakers.
I can turn the amp off, and the noise goes away. The head unit has 2 speakers (non-RCA) attached under dash, and there is NO alternator whine coming from them (regardless if amp is on or off).
I have a dedicated 4 gauge power and 4 gauge ground coming off the battery to power the amp (tried to isolate amp from ground loop issue - alternator whine remains).
I tried powering the head unit off both factory harness power/ground and the power/ground of the amp (direct run to battery - 4 gauge on both) & either way the whine remains.
The grounds are not daisy chained.
I've replaced the power wire from the back of the alternator all the way back to the battery with new 4 gauge wire (about 4' in length).
I also ran a dedicated ground wire from the alternator mounting bracket to the ground of the battery post (about 4' in length).
I ran an additional ground wire from the frame (engine bay) to the battery negative post (about 3' in length).
With the engine running, I can disconnect the power wire (+) from the back of the alternator (the one that goes to the battery pos(+) post), and the whine stops.
 
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OK, that all helps. Sounds like the noise is coming in through the amp, and its getting in through the power supply. Got some ideas, but I've got to run right now. Check in later this evening, and I will see what we can do.
 
Got a minute at the office. Capacitor is my first choice. On paper, a choke would do well, but it would screw up the response of the amp.
Problem is, the capacitor you add is going to become part of the filter system inside the amp. Even though its outside. Because of that, the size is going be best determined by trial and error.
You want to put the capacitor across the power input line as close to the amp as you can. If you use an electrolytic, be very sure to pay attention to the polarity markings on the capacitor.
Hooking it up backwards will cause an almost immediate explosion.

Folks are coming back in, gotta go. If you have access to some caps, turn the system on, and try different caps across the wires as you listen to see what does best.
 
Wait... Are you talking about adding a capacitor on the alternator or one on the amplifier? Or both? I stole the images below to illustrate my question.

altcap.jpg

tspeccap.jpg
 
Ok, anytime you rectify ac you get dc with what is called "ripple". This is pulsing voltage on top of the dc. When you rectify standard single phase ac, like house current, the voltage goes to zero twice per cycle. So, you will have the brief dips in the dc.
To help prevent that and to make the alternators more efficient, they wound them to produce three phase. The third phase "fills in" the zero voltage dips, so it does not go all the way to zero.
But it still dips. It does so at an audio frequency. Thus the whine.
Dc powered gadgets don't like noisy dc, so in the several power supplies I built over the years, I put in capacitors. A capacitor acts like a water tank in a water pump system.It charges up to the maximum voltage of the power supply. Then, when the voltage starts to dip in ripple, it supplies the needed current to fill in the dip. Thus you get a nice clean output.
But, its a fact of life that the more current the power supply has to provide, the more ripple you get and the bigger the capacitor you need. So, trying to eliminate the ripple from an alternator that is putting out 50 amps or so, would require a massive capacitor.
But, in addition to audio frequency ripple, alternators also can put out radio frequency noise unrelated to the ripple.
Capacitors are shorts to ac, but block dc. So, putting a relatively small capacitor across the output of the alternator will short any rf to ground. That is the purpose of the capacitor on the alternator.
To short the ripple to ground under high current, would require a huge capacitor. Which the battery tends to act like. I have seen bad battery connections and even batteries that are going bad cause whine.

In your case, I think its a poor or defective filter system in the power input in the amp. So, we need to help it with an external capacitor. The one you posted might work, but its primary use is to supply current during high amp loads.
Most amps don't need it, but if you are running one of the big 500w or up amps, you probably do. There are two ways to get rid of the noise. Short it to ground, in which case a small cap, say 47microfareds might work, or try to fill in the ripples in which case the bigger .5 fared one might work.
I wish I could give you a size, but whatever you use is going to become part of the filter system inside the amp, and that will affect its behavior.

Do you have a local source of supply for capacitors? They need to be rated at about 35 volts. They sell 16 volt ones, but that is pushing it. With Radio Shak gone, most of the stuff nowadays is mail order. And you really need an assortment to try out.
Any radio guys in your area? Remember if you use an electrolytic one, it will have one end marked either plus or minus. That end MUST be connected to the correct wire.
And the voltage rating is kinda critical. It can be way above the voltage you are hooking it to, but cannot be below it, and should not be too close. So, a 1000mf at 16 volts is risky, while 1000mf at 250volts is fine.

Even one of the little cans like go across old time points might help. Just hook the wire to the positive side and the can to the negative. Assuming it did not come off an old positive ground car or tractor......
If you can find some capacitors, just hook up one and try it. If the noise goes down, try a bigger one.

The only good thing about trial and error with capacitors is that they are usually fairly cheap.
For instance.

https://www.alliedelec.com/illinois-capacitor-inc-108ckh035m/70112171/
Notice the arrows on the side of the cap with a minus sign in them. They are pointing to the terminal that has to be hooked to the negative lead. Some capacitor have the same arrows with plus symbols in them. Naturally they hook to the positive side.

Axial leads might be easier to hook up, such as this one.

https://www.alliedelec.com/bc-components-vishay-mal202117102e3/70122976/

The difference in price is due to the higher rated voltage.

Note in the specs where it says ESR. The lower that number the better.

I'm afraid I have not helped much. Post back with other questions or results. But I'm pretty sure your problem is in the amp.
 
I greatly appreciate you taking the time to walk me through this. It sounds like you have a lot of experience studying and working with electrical devices, and I'm thankful you're sharing. The two links you mentioned above are for small capacitors like the one shown below. How and where would this be installed? Would it go inline between the amp and the power (or ground) cable (depending on its markings and intended use)? I'm trying to understand how this small capacitor would be implemented/installed into my system. Is it as simple as cutting the power (or ground) wire and soldering the capacitor inline?

70122976.jpg
 
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Have you tried an audio ground loop isolator on the amp audio line-in? With the whine present, if you unplug the RCA cable to the amp input, does the noise go away?
 
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