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Another battery thread.........

OptimaJim said:
What were the circumstances surrounding the subsequent issues and what is the parasitic draw in that vehicle?


Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries
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I'm not looking for a replacement or an explanation. I'm not questioning your companies customer service. The vehicle was driven in probably 1.5 month intervals with no detrimental parasitic draw unless you consider the radio memory to apply there lol.
 
Anyone know where I can get a coupon code for sears batteries? I'm gonna go with a dual terminal Sears Diehard Platinum. Its an AGM Odyssey rebranded.

4 years no questions warranty is worth the money to me.
 
I have yet to have a problem with my optima, had one in since 12/05, still ran strong, picked another one up for christmas. Thanks Optima.
 
Stomis said:
:dunno:

Lots of people say the issues started during the 05/06 production years.
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Hmmm, well my dad actually took the battery and is now using it for our little camper. Both the new (12/10) YT and the old (12/05) YT were a huge improvement over my brand new (11/10) Interstate battery, I have little experience with batteries with me being 16, but I have NO complaints against the Optima at all, I'll be buying from them for awhile until I get an Odyssey thrown my way, that way I can have my own opinion, but until then, Optima is the way for me. :thumb: :thumb:
 
Hi KidJethro, they do keep me busy, don't they? Stomis, whether you buy one of our batteries or someone else's, I'd still like to help you find out why you had issues with your original battery and the four subsequent replacements. Fully-charged, our RedTops will measure approximately 12.6-12.8 volts and our YellowTops will measure approximately 13.0-13.2 volts. When any battery is discharged below 12.4 volts and is allowed to sit in that state, sulfation begins to diminish both capacity and lifespan. If you only drive your vehicle every six weeks or so, regular use of a battery tender or maintainer would be a good idea and help extend the life of any battery, regardless of brand.

If that's not practical or possible, disconnecting your fully-charged battery is also a viable alternative. A typical parasitic draw is about 25 milliamps, but given enough time, even small draws can discharge a battery. For anyone who might be interested, this video explains how to measure parasitic draw.

CoDyHD, I'm glad to hear you are pleased with your batteries.


Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries
 
OptimaJim said:
Hi KidJethro, they do keep me busy, don't they? Stomis, whether you buy one of our batteries or someone else's, I'd still like to help you find out why you had issues with your original battery and the four subsequent replacements. Fully-charged, our RedTops will measure approximately 12.6-12.8 volts and our YellowTops will measure approximately 13.0-13.2 volts. When any battery is discharged below 12.4 volts and is allowed to sit in that state, sulfation begins to diminish both capacity and lifespan. If you only drive your vehicle every six weeks or so, regular use of a battery tender or maintainer would be a good idea and help extend the life of any battery, regardless of brand.

If that's not practical or possible, disconnecting your fully-charged battery is also a viable alternative. A typical parasitic draw is about 25 milliamps, but given enough time, even small draws can discharge a battery. For anyone who might be interested, this video explains how to measure parasitic draw.

CoDyHD, I'm glad to hear you are pleased with your batteries.


Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries
Click to expand...


Jim I do appreciate the fact that you guys even give the time of day to consider viewing our issues here as well as other non official places on the web. And I'm not just saying that. The problem here is that the issue is to far gone in time to start investigating now.

This was 1.5 years ago since its been dead, and the battery is well out of warranty. Unfortunately I feel that had I known I could have contacted you guys directly for replacement I would have a little bit of a better outlook on your product. As I said my initial year of use was excellent. The first one ****ting the bed was 100% my fault due to my O2 sensor heater accidentally being wired into a constant rather than a switch 12v.

After solving my draw issue (and I happen to know its solved because I've had a regular battery in it sitting for 8 months that hasnt died and is hooked up) I went through 2 more subsequent red tops.

:dunno:

Unfortunately another problem here is the companies contracted to sell your batteries. Advanced Auto basically told me to F off since my account was deleted. That account holds the records of my purchase for warranty information, so why would I keep the paper receipt? (Shut up old timers :D )

That left a pretty bad taste in my mouth. Not that its Optimas fault. Like I said I'm going to go with a Sears Diehard Platinum. Its a re-branded Odyssey and boasts a 4 year warranty.
 
Stomis, I am sorry to hear about the problem you had with your retailer, but I appreciate you taking the time to share it here, as it may benefit someone else. Even if a retailer loses their record of your purchase, any proof of purchase you might have, from the actual receipt to a cancelled check or credit card statement for the approximate amount can be used for a warranty claim.

I understand your first battery failure was attributed to a bad O2 sensor, but what concerns me is the two subsequent failures. I do like to share customer feedback with our engineers and it is more meaningful if I am able to share the circumstances surrounding the failures. In some cases, we've even exchanged those batteries, so we can further study them, based on the owner's description of the battery failure. I understand your vehicle sits unused for extended periods of time and I am interested in knowing what your parasitic draw is and what the voltage of the batteries were at the time of failure, even though you indicated the radio presets were the only draw on the battery. A new battery can often mask a parasitic draw for a period of time, but if it is significant enough or the conditions are right, the issue will manifest itself again.


Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries
 
ryoken said:
there is really no purpose in a cranking battery... as long as the battery in question has enough CCA to cover the load, it all boils down to reserve capacity.. why do all giant marine dizzles that draw ungodly amounts of amps use deep cycle to start?
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OK, here's my thought.
With a diesel engine, especially in a cold climate, CCA is not to be over looked.

I'm guessing that the marine applications have more use for driving electrical stuff when the engine is turned off.
And they can afford the size and weight of pretty big batteries, so even a deep cycle battery can turn the engine over...:dunno:

I don't think a deep cycle battery with the same dimensions as a stock truck battery will hold up giving large starting currents in the long run.
 
Fred_M1010 said:
OK, here's my thought.
With a diesel engine, especially in a cold climate, CCA is not to be over looked.

I'm guessing that the marine applications have more use for driving electrical stuff when the engine is turned off.
And they can afford the size and weight of pretty big batteries, so even a deep cycle battery can turn the engine over...:dunno:

I don't think a deep cycle battery with the same dimensions as a stock truck battery will hold up giving large starting currents in the long run.
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thats what a house battery is for... engine batteries strictly start and maintain the engines..

yes, a "cranking" battery in the same group size will have more CCA, but as long as the load is under the limit, it doesn't matter.. as i said before, as long as a battery has enough CCA to handle the load, it doesn't matter if it has 1000 CCA or a million..

as a matter of fact, long, cold, no start, cranking situations are much better handled by a deep cycle due to the fact it actually has reserve capacity, unlike a cranking battery..

and it certainly holds up as well to "large starting currents"... the plate design of a true deep cycle is waaaay more conducive to long durable life than a honeycomb.. the fact it can survive deep discharges, unlike a cranking battery, is a perfect example of that durability..

but I guess I'm wrong then and my decades of firsthand experience of maintaining hundreds of batteries a year have been for nothing....... :whistle:
 
ryoken said:
but I guess I'm wrong then and my decades of firsthand experience of maintaining hundreds of batteries a year have been for nothing....... :whistle:
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Yup, that must be the case..... ;)

I read your whole post again, and you're probably right, and I seem to have missed this part:
as long as the battery in question has enough CCA to cover the load
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Even though I quoted it:doah:

And I've realized that it's BS that a deep cycle battery wouldn't survive as a cranking battery :o
Don't know where I got that from...:dunno:

But you will need a physically bigger battery, at least I got that part right :D
 
poor attempt at bustin balls on my part... :wink1:

I'm definitely not what the battery companies want as a spokesman... :haha: fighting the hype they've ingrained into society over the yrs is a losing battle on my part, but I feel the need to fight it..

now, Jim may consult their engineers and come up with an argument as to why I'm wrong.. but you'll be hard-pressed to change my opinion.... yrs of herniating myself hauling around a million 8D's have made me very jaded, and opinionated on the subject....

one of the reasons i feel they've rammed the "cranking" batteries down everyone throat over the yrs is that, you can get away with that style of plate design often, just due to the nature of an automotive charging system...

and it's a hard fight saying a battery with 800, 900 CCA is better than one with 1000, 1100... it's just human nature.... higher number, ooooooooo... :haha:
 
So could I just get two deep cycles and run them parallel (that still gives me 12v just higher amp right?) and stuffed them behind the seat? Or should I seperate/isolate/something something so if I run a battery down I can still start the truck? Or what about a starting battery and two DC's? I say behind the seat because I'd like the weight to be more in the center and I'm worried about freezing lol
 
i run 2 grp 27 deeps.. if your gonna run them in parallel all the time, yes, they should be the same.... there are TONS of ways to do multi-battery setups.... parallel, marine switch, diode isolators, acr's, etc, and combinations of those... it all depends on how you want to set up the system and what you want it to do.. and how much you want to "understand" what it all does... there are lots of diode isolator systems out that make it all pretty idiot proof, but may, or may not have all the features that you'd like...

a search of "dual battery" will be bring up a ton of stuff more than likely... with a ton of rambling by me... usually the best way for me to help out is to see a diagram of what someone intends to do, and i can point out it's strength's, weakness's, or potential issues... feel free to pm me or ask any question ya want here..

just be aware that running batteries inside can be hazardous without proper boxes and venting....
 
ryoken said:
just be aware that running batteries inside can be hazardous without proper boxes and venting....
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That is the only reason I started running Optima batteries.
I had mine (2 red tops) sitting where the console used to be.
 
ryoken, the type of battery someone needs is based upon their specific application and for the vast majority of vehicles on the road, an SLI (starting/lighting/ignition) battery is all they need. I think it is smart for all manufacturers to offer options for customers, because one size doesn't fit all. Millions of the minivans and sedans that populate our roads do just fine with SLI batteries and have no need for a battery that can be deep-cycled, so why make everyone spend more money on one if they don't need it?

Times are always changing and even in the last ten years, the number of accessories used in vehicles has skyrocketed, as satellite radio, GPS systems, ipods, cell phones and DVD players are becoming commonplace in vehicles that already have increasing electrical demands from the factory. Battery manufacturers and the OEMs are both changing to meet those increased demands. As we move closer to zero emission vehicles, OEMs and battery manufacturers are also looking at new technologies that will make vehicles lighter and more efficient and battery technology is a big part of that.

DrkZide & imiceman44, although our batteries and many others (both AGM & flooded) are considered “sealed” batteries, as ryoken indicated, all lead-acid batteries can vent gas in extreme situations. For that reason, we always recommend that any battery installed in an enclosed location be properly-vented to the outside. Our group 27, 51, 34C, and 31 batteries all have ports for connecting a vent hose. Although people do it anyway, we would never recommend installing an unvented battery in any enclosed space, because there's a legitimate, albeit unlikely, safety risk involved.

For example, IF there is a voltage regulator failure, and IF the battery is severely overcharged, and IF this goes unnoticed, and IF the battery vents because the internal pressure exceeds the release pressure of the vents, the gasses are both flammable and toxic. This may sound like a lot of “ifs,” but attorneys and engineers get paid to plan for every worst-case scenario. Fully-charged, our RedTops are protected from freezing down to -50F and our YellowTops down to -30F.


Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries
 
thanks for the professional reply Jim, i respect and appreciate that... and for the record, if I ever mention you by name, it isn't meant in any disrespectful way, your just the face of the manufacturer that we are seeing...

and i do understand where your coming from as far as choices go, and Optima's need to cover all the bases.. I just try to bring some real world evaluation to battery discussions pertaining to alot of perceived, and often incorrect facts by the general public... as do you... mine, just happens to go against alot of traditional perceptions.. :haha:

battery tech, application and maintenance are a HUGE part of my daily job... i see, troubleshoot and design systems that would have many scratching their heads... the marine industry is an incredible test bed for DC systems, in part due to it's side by side nature with AC systems.....

the charger and inverter tech on boats is as broad as you can possibly imagine.. I don't claim to be an electrical engineer, but I have more experience than most when it comes to DC systems and their properties..

the world has been chomping at the bit for battery innovations and hopefully Optima will help push that envelope... i'm sure with the big push on zero-emissions vehicles, things are hopefully jumping in your R&D department... :wink1:
 
ryoken, I only took your comments as someone asking legitimate questions worth answering. I'm not privvy to all the plans on the horizon for Optima, but some of the conversations I heard at SEMA do have me excited about our future. Having JCI for a parent company also helps keep us in the loop on technological advances within the industry.


Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries
 
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