Anyone do an SAS on an S10? ** UPDATE POST 17**

[crashandburn]

I just scored a 97 4 door blazer in great shape with 138k on the clock for 300 bucks. Owner thought it needed a motor. Battery was dead so I couldn't verify, but for the price I figured it was worth throwing a motor in. Got it home, tinkered a bit, turns out all it needed was a starter! It runs great! I've decided to make it a full on trail rig.

Here's the plan... Full size truck axles on leaf springs, 9.5" 14 bolt semi float rear, GM 10 bolt or D44 front, lockers, 5.38 gears, 37" tires. I'm gonna cut the bumpers and if needed the fenders, bump the axles out 2 inches or so, and keep it as low as I can.

Before I ask my questions, it is important to know the purpose of the truck. I'm in Colorado, so it won't see a lot of mud. Out here we have rocks. Height, horsepower, and rpm are not what makes a good rig. I need gears, lockers, stability (hence the full width axles) and FLEX. Also need simplicity and durability. So a crazy 4 link coil over setup is out. I plan on using it for exploring the mountains and playing in the rocks.

So...
From some very preliminary measurements, it looks like I can fit 56" springs in the front and 63s in back if I make the perches (front axle) and shackle mounts (rear axle) at the very ends of the frame.
Is this total overkill? Should I go 56/56? Or even 52/56? What about Teraflex shackles?

Next question...
Transfer case. Is the stock one strong? It would be great to keep push button 4x4, but not a must. Would at case from a K5 that had a 700r4 bolt right up to the 4l60e? That would give me the passenger side drop I need for the 10 bolt front and a fixed front yoke.

Thanks!

 

[Hogback Fabrication]

Before I ask my questions, it is important to know the purpose of the truck. I'm in Colorado, so it won't see a lot of mud. Out here we have rocks. Height, horsepower, and rpm are not what makes a good rig. I need gears, lockers, stability (hence the full width axles) and FLEX. Also need simplicity and durability. So a crazy 4 link coil over setup is out. I plan on using it for exploring the mountains and playing in the rocks.

Links/coilovers are less durable than leaves? That's news to me, I've had both on the same rig and the long springs were a constant maintenance issue and didn't perform anywhere close to the same level. I'd take any kind of well setup links (even if that means bushings at each end) over long leaves any day. Best upgrade I've done, I think.

Next question...
Transfer case. Is the stock one strong? It would be great to keep push button 4x4, but not a must. Would at case from a K5 that had a 700r4 bolt right up to the 4l60e? That would give me the passenger side drop I need for the 10 bolt front and a fixed front yoke.
Thanks!

The stock t-case is about as strong as the 10 bolt, but wrong side driveshaft. S10 transmissions use a unique 5 bolt pattern on the back, fullsize trucks didn't use that to my knowledge. I believe you'd have to swap the whole trans/t-case to get passenger side drop, or come up with a 5/6 bolt adapter.

Check out this build:

http://coloradok5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=315459

 

[Stomis]

S10s are cool but I would rethink using full size axles if not going with one tons and a huge tire.

The 14bff can be had in 63in width which is a good width for an s10. If you take a look at my build you'll see what 63in width looks like under a gen one. The tires are a good 3in outside the body on each side.

 

[crashandburn]

Links/coilovers are less durable than leaves? That's news to me, I've had both on the same rig and the long springs were a constant maintenance issue and didn't perform anywhere close to the same level. I'd take any kind of well setup links (even if that means bushings at each end) over long leaves any day. Best upgrade I've done, I think.



The stock t-case is about as strong as the 10 bolt, but wrong side driveshaft. S10 transmissions use a unique 5 bolt pattern on the back, fullsize trucks didn't use that to my knowledge. I believe you'd have to swap the whole trans/t-case to get passenger side drop, or come up with a 5/6 bolt adapter.

Check out this build:

http://coloradok5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=315459

After talking to Wade about how many times he's had to replace his link bars, I decided it's not worth the complexity. Bending a bar is no big deal if you're out for the day, but I want to do some long weekend or longer expeditions.

As for the tcase, I suppose I could make an adapter out of 3/16 steel? I had a chevy/bop adapter behind a big block and it was no thicker than that. It held up great.

 

[crashandburn]

Stomis, can you send me a link to your build?

 

[Stomis]

http://coloradok5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=319186 Project Resurrection: The s10 truggy.


Obviously you can't base anything off the frame. But I am building for reliable weekend trips trying to use mostly factory parts.

I wouldn't use 63in springs if you want to be overly reliable out of leaf springs. They're awesome but as said they get beat up flexing like mad. I used 54in Tahoe springs in the back of mine which is the same thick leaf design as the 63s but obviously shorter. I also plan on running a ladder style track bar.


As far as the tcase just swap your trans out for a full size unit. I'm not saying its impossible but I don't think I've ever seen a 5 bolt to 6 bolt adapter.

 

[crashandburn]

http://coloradok5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=319186 Project Resurrection: The s10 truggy.

As far as the tcase just swap your trans out for a full size unit. I'm not saying its impossible but I don't think I've ever seen a 5 bolt to 6 bolt adapter.

Will the electronics work? I know with the S10s the transmissions all had different electronics. 93-94 was one version, 95 was one year only, 96-98 was different, 99-0something was different.

Ill have to check your build later today. I start work at 6:30 am, so I'm being bad right now.

 

[Stomis]

Will the electronics work? I know with the S10s the transmissions all had different electronics. 93-94 was one version, 95 was one year only, 96-98 was different, 99-0something was different.

Ill have to check your build later today. I start work at 6:30 am, so I'm being bad right now.

I'd imagine something has to be compatible. Both trucks came with 4.3s/4l60e.

 

[crashandburn]

I'd imagine something has to be compatible. Both trucks came with 4.3s/4l60e.

Wait a minute, couldn't I just swap tailshaft housings?

Cool build BTW, I like the sliders instead of shackles. Can you give me a little more info on that? Maybe I'll run a similar setup.

 

[r3dd0g]

If Wade is continually bending links, then he needs stronger links. I have a '97 S-10 extended cab with a SAS. I originally built it with 63" springs in the rear and a coilover radius arm setup in the front, but the rear springs started sagging after a year so I linked the rear.

Here is my whole build thread:
http://coloradok5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=315459

But in my opinion, leaf springs = problems in a flexy rig, links and coils = reliability.

My rear lower links are almost 48" long and I can (and have) put the majority of the weight of the truck on them without bending them. Granted, they are BEEF (2.25" 7075 solid aluminum), but they are lighter than a 2" .250 wall steel tube link.

I originally bent my front radius arms, they were 2" .250 wall DOM, I switched to Chromoly and have not bent a link since then.

Currently my rig is on a '72 blazer 12 bolt (63.5" WMS to WMS) and a narrowed 72 blazer dana 44 (to be the same width as the 12 bolt). Unfortunately I've been having trouble keeping axle shafts from breaking under it since I switched tires so I'm going to swap the rear end out for a cab and chassis 14BFF with a Ballistic Fab shave kit (has more clearance than a stock 12 bolt).

In it's current state it has 12" travel in the front and 14" in the rear. Front and rear shocks are centered at ride height.
Poser flex shot:

Here is a shot with it sitting fairly level. It's not tall at all, it sits about the same height as my bone stock 2004 Silverado 2500HD 4x4.

 

[r3dd0g]

Woops, just realized that Chris already linked my build thread...

As a side note, I used a passenger drop dana 44 because that's what I had. If I were doing this again I would have stuck with a drivers drop axle. Re-routing the exhaust was difficult with the driveshaft on the wrong side of the truck.

 

[Stomis]

Wait a minute, couldn't I just swap tailshaft housings?

Cool build BTW, I like the sliders instead of shackles. Can you give me a little more info on that? Maybe I'll run a similar setup.

The nice thing about the sliders is you lose a bushing that twists and you never run out of travel like a shackle.

Tail housing swap maybe possible but I don't know first hand.

And agree. Find a drivers drop high pinion and shorten it. Drivers drop is easier for a pan hard bar if you go that route and exhaust.

 

[fourwheelerjeff]

Next question...
Transfer case. Is the stock one strong? It would be great to keep push button 4x4, but not a must. Would at case from a K5 that had a 700r4 bolt right up to the 4l60e? That would give me the passenger side drop I need for the 10 bolt front and a fixed front yoke.

Thanks!

why not a Ford HP44 front axle? then it would be driver's drop and could keep the transfer case.

 

[crashandburn]

why not a Ford HP44 front axle? then it would be driver's drop and could keep the transfer case.

I'm open to that idea. Gotta find one, hopefully that won't be a big deal.

Is it an issue having the slip yoke on the front output? When Xtreme 4X4 did the SAS on the fullsize, Ian said the driveshaft will fall out when you flex it.

 

[Stomis]

I'm open to that idea. Gotta find one, hopefully that won't be a big deal.

Is it an issue having the slip yoke on the front output? When Xtreme 4X4 did the SAS on the fullsize, Ian said the driveshaft will fall out when you flex it.

Well with leafs your front axle is gonna travel far away from your transfer case with droop. Thats the other nice thing about 3 link / radius arm, the driveshaft travel is significantly less. Every build Ive seen has had the front slip yoke eliminated/tcase swapped for a fixed yoke.

Im no wealth of knowledge on the smaller running gear but I believe the np231 isnt a bad case for the rig size. You'll hit your wall when you want gearing, thats why Im gonna run a beefed up toy doubler.

 

[crashandburn]

Well with leafs your front axle is gonna travel far away from your transfer case with droop. Thats the other nice thing about 3 link / radius arm, the driveshaft travel is significantly less. Every build Ive seen has had the front slip yoke eliminated/tcase swapped for a fixed yoke.

Im no wealth of knowledge on the smaller running gear but I believe the np231 isnt a bad case for the rig size. You'll hit your wall when you want gearing, thats why Im gonna run a beefed up toy doubler.

Any recommendations on a sye? I'm not seeing a bunch of info on the internet.

Also, with those leaf spring sliders, can I use them safely on the front axle, or just the rear?

 

[crashandburn]

New development...
I'm going tomorrow after work to pick up my new to me front axle.
It's a HP D44 from an old Bronco.
Has 5.13 gears. I was gonna go 5.38, I'd say that's close enough!
Already set up for high steer/crossover steer.
Currently set up for coils. Maybe I'll take the advice of some of the guys on here and coil/link it after all. I'm gonna need some help with the angles and sourcing links though.

It's under a Cherokee now, and it's from a Bronco, so it's probably 5 lug. No biggie. Guy is asking 400 but open to offers. I'm doing it.

 

[Stomis]

New development...
I'm going tomorrow after work to pick up my new to me front axle.
It's a HP D44 from an old Bronco.
Has 5.13 gears. I was gonna go 5.38, I'd say that's close enough!
Already set up for high steer/crossover steer.
Currently set up for coils. Maybe I'll take the advice of some of the guys on here and coil/link it after all. I'm gonna need some help with the angles and sourcing links though.

It's under a Cherokee now, and it's from a Bronco, so it's probably 5 lug. No biggie. Guy is asking 400 but open to offers. I'm doing it.

Thats a good starting point. Theyre a tad narrow but nothing some 8 lug outers and wheels wont get you around. Just make sure its high pinion!

Also you basically have no choice but to link it with that rear. Theres no perch cast into the center chunk so leafs are basically not an option.

As far as the SYE you'll have to dig around on that one. I thought the NP231 came in a fixed front yoke, rear slip yoke form at one point or another.

 

[crashandburn]

A Bronco front end is narrow? I guess I didn't realize that. I also didn't mention that it's from a full size Bronco. But hey if it is narrow, some 2" wide adapters takes care of the narrow problem and the 5 lug in one shot!

 

[r3dd0g]

I would just pull the chevy knuckles off your 10 bolt and put them on the ford axle to fix the wheel fitment, although then you'd lose the high steer...