I.m thinking about high steer hydro or full hydro. But I have to drive my truck everywhere I go. No trailer or towrig, yet. Until then, can.t imagine the cops even now what there looking at when itcomes to my steering. Not sure I could even get it trued up enough to have it be comfortable down the road.
CK5
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Anyone ever get busted for havng full hydro on pavement?
- Thread starter 14-Bolt
- Start date
Never gotten busted. I drive it so very little on the road. Just testing mainly.
I did have a trooper look it over one time though. He walked around it, looked underneath it and all around. Gave it a real good once over and said "The only thing he'd cite me for was the tire coverage."
That being said, its a little weird on the road. I think what it is, is the crown of the road and the open center. The wheel has to be steadily turned left. Perhaps a revolution every couple miles to go straight.
EDIT: Thinking more about it, you probably wouldn't get any trouble at all till something went wrong. Then I think that'd be all she wrote. Probably get the book thrown at you pretty hardcore.
I did have a trooper look it over one time though. He walked around it, looked underneath it and all around. Gave it a real good once over and said "The only thing he'd cite me for was the tire coverage."
That being said, its a little weird on the road. I think what it is, is the crown of the road and the open center. The wheel has to be steadily turned left. Perhaps a revolution every couple miles to go straight.
EDIT: Thinking more about it, you probably wouldn't get any trouble at all till something went wrong. Then I think that'd be all she wrote. Probably get the book thrown at you pretty hardcore.
I personally would not do it. There is a reason we don't see any "drive by wire" vehicles out there yet.
My car, and probably many others no longer has a connection from the accelerator pedal to the throttle body. It just turns a potentiometer which controls the throttle through electronics.
But the steering is still hardware.
If a wire breaks, my throttle goes to idle and I call a wrecker to come get me.
If a power steering hose blows out, which has happened once, I not only retain control of the car, I am even able to drive it.
If a hose blows out on a full hydro setup, you instantly have no control of the truck. Very exciting in a freeway setting.
Sure you can use 3 wire hoses, extra heavy duty fittings, but what about the idler pulley on your fan belt?
I had one of them go out at speed and shred the fan belt.
Lost power steering, alternator and waterpump/fan.
I was still able to steer off the road and had full control.
Full hydro, not so much.......
I guess if you are single with no dependents, and only drive on highways with no kids in other cars or beside the road, it might be OK.
But I would not take the chance.
My car, and probably many others no longer has a connection from the accelerator pedal to the throttle body. It just turns a potentiometer which controls the throttle through electronics.
But the steering is still hardware.
If a wire breaks, my throttle goes to idle and I call a wrecker to come get me.
If a power steering hose blows out, which has happened once, I not only retain control of the car, I am even able to drive it.
If a hose blows out on a full hydro setup, you instantly have no control of the truck. Very exciting in a freeway setting.
Sure you can use 3 wire hoses, extra heavy duty fittings, but what about the idler pulley on your fan belt?
I had one of them go out at speed and shred the fan belt.
Lost power steering, alternator and waterpump/fan.
I was still able to steer off the road and had full control.
Full hydro, not so much.......
I guess if you are single with no dependents, and only drive on highways with no kids in other cars or beside the road, it might be OK.
But I would not take the chance.
I'm not sure that most cops would even know what full hydro sterring is if they seen it. I can guarantee you one thing though, you get into an accident that involves the loss of steering on your rig and there will be HELL to pay like Kert said.
If a tie rod end breaks on a conventional system you'll lose all steering control as well
Typically hoses don't explode and fail, they usually leak first. On top of that, full hydraulic hoses are usually REALLY good quality. We've had a hose fail on our KOH racer and you don't instantly lose steering, there is typically enough fluid in the system that you'll know something is wrong and have a chance to do something about it before things are out of control.
If the pump/motor dies you do still have steering control if you use the right steering control (orbital) valve.
If you're driving on the road like you say, you don't want full hydro regardless of whether the cops care or not.
Fully hydro won't get you more steering power over a good hydraulic assist setup, it's advantages can be cost and that it's easier and higher clearance to package in a link front suspension.
If a tie rod end breaks on a conventional system you'll lose all steering control as well
True, had that happen as well. My fault, it had gotten sloppy and I didn't check it soon enough.
But, it did give me warning, I just didn't listen.
As for the hoses, I have only had two failures on a truck.
The PS hose that blew out was not a hose failure. I was trying to turn around quick to kill a rattlesnake on a highway and one wheel dropped off the pavement. As I spun the wheel, the pressure spike blew out the keeper in the swivel joint connection on the pump.
Lost all power instantly.
The other one, was a hydraulic hose going to my winch. I was using three wire hoses, but this one's cover had gotten rubbed in the frame and the wires had rusted.
Never leaked a drop, but blew out when I was winching out a friend's farm tractor and disk.
Didn't think about an orbital valve. That would work, but all of them I have seen would require a lot of frantic cranking to steer. You would have some control though.
Maybe others move more fluid than the ones I'm used to.
As for the greasable bolt in the other thread, I wasn't clear. I was commenting on the general strength of different designs, not the specific application.
You certainly would not want to even approach the torque limit of the bolt in that situation.
I've cruised mine a little on the pavement with full hydro. Mine is single ended and can be a little quicker one way vs other but unless you pay attention its hardly noticeable. Another guy here cruises his on the street alot with full hydro front/rear on rockwells and the cops just wave. One time a cop followed him home to tell him that it was the coolest rig he had ever seen. Wyoming is pretty easy going though as long as you aren't doing something retarded.
It takes some getting used to but full hydro can be driven on the street, steering gets really quick though definately takes alot more paying attention too.
How far are you driving? Most of the trails I do are within 20 miles of my house if that close I would go full. One more thing to think of unless you are linked full hydro is a pain to mount unless you go pretty low with it
How far are you driving? Most of the trails I do are within 20 miles of my house if that close I would go full. One more thing to think of unless you are linked full hydro is a pain to mount unless you go pretty low with it
The reason is cost vs. benefit. From a steering standpoint, you need a lot of redundant equipment to make steer-by-wire safe. What are the advantages? Flexible packaging - since you don't need a steering column sticking through the "front of dash" (there is no part of a car called "firewall"). Apart from the large cost for all this hardware, you now have multiple new controllers and actuators to package - probably at a weight penalty. Now we already have Electronic steering - both column and rack assist - that work for auto-park and automated highway applications. It includes a mechanical linkage (failure mode is manual steering) and has no cost penalty. No-brainer.
But closer to topic...Don't they make a hydro valve that lets you apply manual force to turn the steering without the pump? That lessens the severity of some kinds of failures. There are farm implements hitting a little pavement with full hydro. Does the orange triangle make it legal? Just get one of those.
Having driven several thousand miles with hydro steering in the last few years both on trails, gravel roads and highways I would stick with a hydro assist system.
There are things about full hydro that just plain suck on the highway. Your valve will start to leak internally eventually. This is the always needing to turn one way or the other deal. I have heard that this can create an air pocket and produce a bit of a spongy feel in the steering but I have never noticed it and also don't understand how a properly bleed system can have any air in it.
Typically hydro steering is fast as well. We have two orbital valves for the race car. One fast and one slow. High speed needs the slow valve, low speed trails needs the fast valve. We have been sticking with the slower valve, 3+ turns lock to lock, just for consistency and the fact that we will go over 80mph in one part of the race and rock crawl in another. The slow valve is just easier to compensate for in the rocks than the fast valve in the high speed stuff.
Hydro assist has very few if any down falls.
Dirt only/offroad only vehicle I would do full hydro but not for street use beyond a few miles.
There are things about full hydro that just plain suck on the highway. Your valve will start to leak internally eventually. This is the always needing to turn one way or the other deal. I have heard that this can create an air pocket and produce a bit of a spongy feel in the steering but I have never noticed it and also don't understand how a properly bleed system can have any air in it.
Typically hydro steering is fast as well. We have two orbital valves for the race car. One fast and one slow. High speed needs the slow valve, low speed trails needs the fast valve. We have been sticking with the slower valve, 3+ turns lock to lock, just for consistency and the fact that we will go over 80mph in one part of the race and rock crawl in another. The slow valve is just easier to compensate for in the rocks than the fast valve in the high speed stuff.
Hydro assist has very few if any down falls.
Dirt only/offroad only vehicle I would do full hydro but not for street use beyond a few miles.
Thanks for all the great responses. It is my trail toy and I have a small s10 for a daily driver. So I can't afford another truck with insurance as a tow vehicle. Unfortunetly all trails around me are 45+ miles away, some are a few hours. My plan was to do full hydro, but I definetly don't want to take a chance of losing control, so I'll start checking out setups for 44's. Opinions on high steer hydro?
Times umpteen on not for daily driving. Can't beat it for off road.
I do have a HOWE double end ram and orbital valve for sale.
I do have a HOWE double end ram and orbital valve for sale.
