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ARG... I still think my alt isn't charging...

dbreid

dbreid

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San Mateo CA
EDIT: See post #16 for the final answer!


OK,
This is sort of a continuation of a previous post, but I need to start clean, so folks don't have to wade through so much...

Here's the previous post:

http://coloradok5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=237195

1.) Alt seemed bad (doesn't matter if it was true, this was what I thought). Truck has Twin brand new Yellow Tops, and a working isolator. I am leaving one isolated, and only working with the main battery.
2.) Bought new 94A 12si alternator at NAPA (reman).
3.) While installing it, I accidentally grounded the live red charging "post" on the back. It arced, and I blew a fusible link. That saga is here: http://coloradok5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=237244&highlight=accidentally
4.) I fixed the fusible link thanks to help on here, and everything seemed to be back to normal. Truck starts up and runs fine....
5.) While I was at it, I ran a brand new ground wire to the block. Using one of the bolts in the front of the block which holds the alternator/air pump bracket.

But now I believe I might be back to square 1!

Here's what I know:

A.) With the truck OFF, I get just under 12V across the posts of the battery, using a good Multimeter. It fluctuates a bit
B.) With the truck running, I get Slightly more, but never over 13V. I know I am aiming for 13.8V.
C.) When I measure the voltage of the Terminal on the back of the alternator, I get just slightly higher (by maybe half a volt), but still never over 13V. More like 12.5V

Questions:

1.) Did I fry the alternator diode trio when I f-ed up and blew the fusible link?
2.) Did I blow ANOTHER fusible link? I know the wire that connects to the back of the Alternator is a fusible link, but it looks OK, and doesn't seem melted...
3.) Is the alternator not getting the "charge" signal from the brown wire into the Alternator?

I am fine with returning the alternator and getting another one (I am now a professional alternator changer!), but I am worried that I have some other isse.

Or am I just now paranoid, and my truck is fine?

I will get folks pictures and readings of anything that might help.

Thanks for any help! I am supposed to go wheeling for 4 days in Shaver lake tomorrow afternoon, and I don't want to be watching my VOLT gauge the whole time...

-Dan
 
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OK, so I just made more measurements.

TRUCK OFF

Voltage across Battery terminals = 11.94V
Voltage from (-) battery terminal to back terminal of ALT = 11.94
Voltage from (-) battery terminal to RED wire in plug = 0
Voltage from (-) battery terminal to WHITE (factory is brown) wire in plug = 0

TRUCK ON (no accessories running) roughly 1000RPM

Voltage across Battery terminals = 12.21V to 12.4 Volts
Voltage from (-) battery terminal to back terminal of ALT = 12.71V
Voltage from (-) battery terminal to RED wire in plug = 12.4V
Voltage from (-) battery terminal to WHITE (factory is brown) wire in plug = 12.4V

TRUCK ON (ALL accessories running) roughly 1000RPM

This one has headlights, Spotlights, Dual Electric fan on high, CB, etc. Everything I could turn on!

Voltage across Battery terminals = 11.69 Volts
Voltage from (-) battery terminal to back terminal of ALT = 11.88V
Voltage from (-) battery terminal to RED wire in plug = 11.46V
Voltage from (-) battery terminal to WHITE (factory is brown) wire in plug = 11.88V

Also, here is a picture of where I measured:

alt_03.jpg
 
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If you fried the diod it would have no charge, what happens when you turn everything like wipers hazzard etc.?

NVM read the whole post
 
OK. :) Despite the fact that this has turned into a blog about me working on my truck, I'll post again. In another post, someone recommended that I try this, so I did. Trying to get all the info I can!

With the truck off, I placed a long bolt against the back of the alternator. Near the rear bearing. Nothing happened.
With the truck ON, I did the same thing, and the bolt "stuck" magnetically to the back of the alternator.

I suppose that any spinning coil of wires would make that happen, but maybe that helps diagnose this a bit?

-Dan
 
kgblazerfive said:
Ok reread the post I think I would go for the new alternator
Click to expand...

Firstly, thank you for taking the time to read my stuff. I appreciate it!

Is there anything else I can check? The only other things I can think of in the circuit are:

1.) Possibly the fusible link connected to the alternator?
2.) Something in the resistance of the wire that tells the alternator to charge? This one has me baffled, because it seems like both terminals are getting juice?

I guess the alternator is my only move at this point....

-Dan
 
The one reason I say Alt is the frying part it was good then you did the melting thing so its easier to just replace it then to take the time to figure out why, eliminates a variable.
 
kgblazerfive said:
The one reason I say Alt is the frying part it was good then you did the melting thing so its easier to just replace it then to take the time to figure out why, eliminates a variable.
Click to expand...

This is very true. I will just go to NAPA first thing tomorrow and get a new one. :)
 
Eh, I'm just happy more people have put this stuff up on the internet, to save me typing. :)

One thing I forgot to mention, the single terminal is SUPPOSED to have a rubber boot over it, which is part of the wire, put on before the ring terminal was crimped to the wire. I'd highly recommend adding one if yours is missing.
 
dyeager535 said:
Eh, I'm just happy more people have put this stuff up on the internet, to save me typing. :)

One thing I forgot to mention, the single terminal is SUPPOSED to have a rubber boot over it, which is part of the wire, put on before the ring terminal was crimped to the wire. I'd highly recommend adding one if yours is missing.
Click to expand...

Yeah, mine has "some" of that rubber boot still on there. But I will try to grab one when I am at NAPA in the AM. :)
 
Update! I went to NAPA this morning and explained to them that "this alternator you sold me yesterday doesn't work. I'd like a new one, please. :)" I broght the new one home, and bolted it in, and I now get over 13 volts when the truck is running, and between 12 and 12.4 when the truck is off.

Seems like it was the alternator after all!!!! :)

-Dan
 
Huge Update...

So..... I left for the Sierras roughly right after posting the previous message. Everything seemed good. I was getting 13.5V-14V charge, and I was in business...

I drove an hour south, and then the alternator died... Yeah, weird, huh? I was down to 12V on the gauge, and my multimeter was telling me the same thing. I tested EVERYTHING, and realized I was screwed again. On a whim, I looked in my GPS unit (I have one of those driving ones - Garmin Nuvi 760 - present from my girlfriend, who was with me), and looked for the closest automotive anything. She (my girlfriend) said "hey... here's one that says Nielsen Automotive Electric!" So I called them. It was a little after 7PM but I figured it was worth a shot. The owner answered, and explained that even though they weren't open, he would try to talk me through a diagnosis. He has me test all the same stuff I had tested before, and helped me check a few other things, and proclaimed that the only thing it could be was a dead Alt....

He also told me that the best bet would be for me to go to a guy named Ben at Gilroy Generator, and he would take care of me. It was nearing 8PM, and I decided to call it. My girlfriend and I checked into a hotel with easy access for the truck, we unloaded the gear, locked the truck and went to see Hellboy II. :)

I was up early, and drove to Gilroy Generator first thing in the morning. They were INCREDIBLY helpful, and built me a CS130 with one wire conversion, and I installed it in the parking lot. Ben (the owner) helped me make sure everything was intealled correctly, and we tested it, and it was AWESOME! Thing ran above 14.4V and put out a ton of juice closer to idle. GREAT!

I paid him, and paid for his lunch as well, and sprinted back to the hotel to pack and be on our way. This was about 11AM. So we were off!

Everything was superb for a while... the truck ran like a top, and we drove for another almost 2 hours until I looked down and the gauge was back to 12V... I almost cried!

I pulled into a parking lot in Madera and called Ben back and explained the issue... He was shocked. He and I brainstormed and determined that something had killed his alternator... And the only thing it could be was the Optima. I hadn't swapped to the Aux battery using my switch, so the alt had only been "exposed" to the main battery. Ben explained that sometimes one of the coils in the gel cells goes bad, and they will never take a full charge. So the alternator basically puts out MAX output until it dies.... We determined that was the only possible cause.

So I went to Autozone and bought ANOTHER alternator, swapped batteries (using the original aux as the main), disconnected the "bad" battery, and VOILA! Everything seemed to work again! I drove the rest of the way to the campsite staring at the voltmeter, but it never wavered... My girlfriend would ask every three minutes for a reading! :)

Long story short.. Wiring was good, but the Alts were experiencing "alternator death" because of a bad Optima!

I wheeled it for three days without further charging issue, and I stopped back by Gilroy Generator for a replacement CS130 from Ben. I now have a NICE CS 130 with one wire conversion, as well as a backup 94A for the toolbox.

In closing, if anyone lives in California, I urge you to talk to Ben at Gilroy Generator (Gil-Gen) for ANYTHING involving Alternators or Starters. He had a GREAT attitude, took extra time with me, and did a GREAT job with everything. And to top it off, his prices were great! I watched him build me a BRAND NEW CS130 (I watched him take things out of the factory boxes, not reman junk) test it on his bench (he showed me the readings, etc), and helped me test it for about 130.00. Hard to get that kind of service these days.

Sorry for the long story, but I thought you might be interested to hear it!

-Dan
 
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Glad to hear you got it working. What a hassle though, do everything right (or at least what could reasonably expected as being right) and still have problems. In the end though, all fixed.

One thing I might suggest, (and I hope others would follow) is if you get a chance, go to yellowpages.com and write a review for the folks that treated you right. There have been more than a couple of times I've had to call places, and it helps to know that someone else has had good experiences (or bad) with places. Not to mention, if you really feel a business has helped or hurt you, it's a great way to give them good or bad publicity.
 
For what it's worth I have had NOTHING BUT PROBLEMS with Optima Yellow tops. I bought 1 and it craped out right after the 1 yr. warranty went up. Bought another one to replace it. Lasted only 3 months longer than the one it replaced:mad: (year and 3 months). At $189 a piece they are a complete waste of money. I refuse to buy another one. I bought a Duralast Gold 3 years ago and its still running like a champ.
 
dyeager535 said:
One thing I might suggest, (and I hope others would follow) is if you get a chance, go to yellowpages.com and write a review for the folks that treated you right. There have been more than a couple of times I've had to call places, and it helps to know that someone else has had good experiences (or bad) with places. Not to mention, if you really feel a business has helped or hurt you, it's a great way to give them good or bad publicity.
Click to expand...

Absolutely! I did this just now. :)
 
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