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ATTention kidjethro..need advice on welder settings for spider ball...

down4thakrown

down4thakrown

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who has welded there 14blt ff in the service windows on carrier and has them still holding up too driving on street and hard wheeling?
 
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I don't think you would get good welds on everything that way. Why not take it apart and weld it up good. There are a bunch of threads on here that show pics of a properly welded spider ball.
 
i didn't know you could take it apart when i did mine...

so, yes i went through the windows when i welded mine, in October... i put about 2500 miles on it since, daily driving, and i haven't had a problem yet...

i did use the biggest welder at my brother's old work (they do pipe fitting) that had better settings than the Lincoln's i'm used to... i cleaned it all as best i could, and cranked it up... i spent alot of time getting the gears hot, and washed between the teeth before i welded them to the windows...

if it ever breaks, i'll take a new one apart to do the 'spider ball'...
 
Here's the write up I did on this waaay back in the day-




"No issues with strength and reliability of a welded diff IF you do the "gear ball" method.

Here's a link to the original thread-
http://coloradok5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90030&highlight=gear+ball

This is my reply in that thread-

Here is my reply from the post Fubeca linked too-

Don't bother welding it per the tech article. The back lash that this creates will, over the long run, cause cracking and failure of the side and spider gears. I believe tRustyK5 can comment on this. He put alot of miles on a setup done as the tech article, and was not happy with the long term wear. If you're gonna weld it, I think the consenus is that welding the side gears, spiders, and cross shaft all into one piece is the best idea. I have done 10+ of these for club members and even sold a couple on another BB. So if you have any questions, I'm your man. Here's a few pictures and a bit of an explanation..

Remove the axle shafts first...Ask me how many times I've done this and forgot to remove the axle shafts, and then couldn't figure out why I couldn't get the carrier out.. /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif

After you get the cover off the housing and you're lookin at the carrier and ring gear, you'll see two small bolts, one on either side of the carrier. These two bolts hold the clips in place, which in turn lock the side bearing adjusting nuts in place. These are the large round pieces with many small holes around thier circumference, just outboard from the carrier bearing races. What I do is take a scribe and mark the two holes that the prongs on the clips sit in on the adjusting nut. I also scribe a third mark between the two holes on the adjusting nut and onto the housing. Remove the carrier bearing cap bolts, don't bother with removing the two small bolts and the clips. Set them aside in the same orientation that they came off. Leaving the clips and bolts in the bearing cap helps with making sure that you get them back on in the same orientation they came off. No it's time to loosen the adjusting nut's. One turns clockwise, the other turns counter clockwise. What I do is loosen each nut exactly 1 rotation. Lining up the scribe mark on the nut's and the scribe mark on housing after one rotation. Check to see if the carrier will come out now. If it won't, loosen each nut 1 more turn. Check again. Repeat till the carrier will come out. Remember how many rotations you loosened the nuts, so you'll know how many rotations to tighten them when you put it back together. If you loosen it 2 turns, tighten it two turns, and make sure the two prongs on the clip go back into the holes on the adjusting nut that you marked ealier. Pull carrier out, make sure that the carrier bearing races don't fall out and take off accross the shop floor and hide under the tool box... /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif Set carrier on bench and remove all the ring gear bolts. Tap ring gear off of carrier with brass punch and hammer. Split carrier apart.

This is what you will see after removing the ring gear and splitting the carrier halves apart...


First thing you need to do is take the top side gear off, and tack the spider gears to the cross shaft where the welds are in this picture..Don't forget to flip it over and tack the other side as well. Make sure that the little cup shaped washers that sit betwee the spiders and the carrier remain there while you tack things. I have yet to pull a 14b carrier apart where all 4 of those washers were in good shape. Everyone has had atleast 1 cracked washer. Luckily I had spares. After you get it all tacked, put some welds appx. 1" long in the same places as the tacks. Just like the picture below.

Now put the side gear back on top of the spiders, making sure that it meshs correctly with the spiders and is seated all the way down. Tack every place where the side gears meet the spiders. Remove the gear cluster thingy from the carrier half, flip it over, and set the side you just tacked back into the carrier. There are also large flat washers behind the side gears, make sure those stay in place as well. Repeat the same process with the other side gear. When you have everything tacked together, pull the "gear ball" out of the carrier and weld every place the spiders meet the side gears..Like these pictures...(In the background of the first picture, you can see the cup shaped washers that go behind the spiders, and the large flat washers that fit behind the side gears.)




With 24 seperate welds holding it together, it won't come apart. Pretty much a mini spool for a 14b. I'm 99.9% sure that welded in this manner, It WILL NOT break. The entire carrier would have to explode for that to happen. If you don't like it after you weld it, you can either pull the gear ball out and replace it with a Detriot, or another set of spiders, side gears and cross shaft. No damage to the carrier at all. After you finish, be sure that you clean off all the boogers you can. They like to hang out on the splines in the side gears. A bladed screw driver and a small hammer work well to knock them off. Put everything back together. Don't freak out if the axle shafts dont slide in as loose as they pulled out. Almost everyone I've done I've had to tap thje axle shafts in with a hammer. Key word is tap. If you have to seriously hammer on it, something is wrong. Alot of heat went into welding things together, heat cause's expanding and contracting, thats why it could be a tight fit.

Damn....This pretty much turned into a write-up on how to weld a 14b. haha! Hope that it helps. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
Click to expand...

The pictures in that thread don't work anymore, so here they are in no specific order-
391_G.jpg

392_G.jpg

395_G.jpg

523_G.jpg

393_G.jpg


I ran my welded diff with 42's, 465+doubler and 5.13 gears...Not one issue with strength. :wink1:"

There are no strength issues. 42's and 134:1 crawl ratio-
P1010046.jpg
 
These guys are right on. Pull it apart and weld it all!

I did a spiderball for a guy running some huge ass tractor tires behind an incredibly healthy 468 BBC. It held up while everything around was shattering.
 
thx for the input guys....i would take it apart and weld it into a spider ball but im not sure if id beable to put it back in the rite way since i have never done this...any advise on reinstalling the carrier and ring gear?
 
down4thakrown said:
thx for the input guys....i would take it apart and weld it into a spider ball but im not sure if id beable to put it back in the rite way since i have never done this...any advise on reinstalling the carrier and ring gear?
Click to expand...

KidJethro has it all laid out for you.
 
Just off the top of my head I think 125 but its been several years since I have done a set of gears.
 
You'll be fine. I pulled my 14ff apart and welded it and put it back together and it was the first time I'd torn a diff apart like that. I tacked the side gears to the spider gears then pulled it out and heated it up with a torch before welding...I just got back from a weekend of HEAVY throttle wheelin' in the dunes and everything is fine.

The write up posted above is great...just read it and print it out to keep it handy while you pull it apart. Just make sure you have a good punch on hand and you'll be fine. Punch dots into the adjuster sleeves and the housing so you can line stuff up when you put it back together.
 
so what would be a good heat on welder settings for this to hold but not to warp anything? im not a experienced welder or anything.....i tried just welding in the windows...but it didnt hold. so im goin to take it out and split the carrier and make a spider ball like in your wrie up here. im just not sure on what to set the welder at..ill use my buddies big miller matic 250...maybe? (i think that what it is) its a big miller mig wire feed(i think) with gas. its bout the size of a 27" tv if that helps..lol what should the amps and wire feed be set at? ????

KidJethro said:
Here's the write up I did on this waaay back in the day-



"No issues with strength and reliability of a welded diff IF you do the "gear ball" method.

Here's a link to the original thread-
http://coloradok5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90030&highlight=gear+ball

This is my reply in that thread-



The pictures in that thread don't work anymore, so here they are in no specific order-
391_G.jpg

392_G.jpg

395_G.jpg

523_G.jpg

393_G.jpg


I ran my welded diff with 42's, 465+doubler and 5.13 gears...Not one issue with strength. :wink1:"

There are no strength issues. 42's and 134:1 crawl ratio-
P1010046.jpg
Click to expand...
 
I really wish I didnt have the gov bomb in my 14 bolt, it still works for the time being though.
 
down4thakrown said:
so what would be a good heat on welder settings for this to hold but not to warp anything? im not a experienced welder or anything.....i tried just welding in the windows...but it didnt hold. so im goin to take it out and split the carrier and make a spider ball like in your wrie up here. im just not sure on what to set the welder at..ill use my buddies big miller matic 250...maybe? (i think that what it is) its a big miller mig wire feed(i think) with gas. its bout the size of a 27" tv if that helps..lol what should the amps and wire feed be set at? ????
Click to expand...

That's really an impossible question to answer. Every welder is different. Too many variables to nail down one do-all setting. Roughly, I would say find a setting that works well with 1/4" material. That should get ya close enough. You're not building a swiss watch. ;)

down4thakrown said:
and do you need a tool to get carrier bearings off?
Click to expand...

Don't need a tool because you don't need to remove the carrier bearings. :)

79rustyk10 said:
I really wish I didnt have the gov bomb in my 14 bolt, it still works for the time being though.
Click to expand...

The procedures are alittle different, but any diff can be welded.
 
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