Axle Shaft swap on trail

[samsterman99]

Ok, im prepped with the flame suit already, but I just had my 3.08 10 bolts rebuilt with 4.56's, and a detroit in the rear, lockright front. I know i know i know 1 tons were the correct way for most people to do it, but I was on a limited time table, and in socal, its hard to find bolt in axles for a good price. plus i just bought new 6 lug wheels and tires. It just made sense to have the 10 bolts gone through. I don't wheel "hard", i take my time, and know my limits when i am off road. Mainly running desert and sandy trails, some SLOW technical rocky sections. Now that my excuses are on the table, I want to be prepared for the worst case scenario. I plan to drive this truck on the weekends (maybe), and just to and from the trails I run. I am going to pick up replacement shafts up front, and a rear shaft or 2. My question is, whats the easiest way to replace the shafts on the trail, if I have to. I am not too worried about the front, cause I can always drive home without replacing them. But in the rear, its not FF, so I can't limp home without getting it fixxed. Usually I would pull the cover, take out the pin and C-clip, pull the axle out and swap. I was wondering if the detroit is a different procedure since there is no way to make room to get at the C-clip. Also any special tools I should make sure to pack so I can change both these shafts?
Thanks for the help, I have been reading on here for the past 4 months since I picked up my K5, this is a huge resource. Pictures of my rig coming this weekend when I pick it up!

 

[Russell]

Well, if you can install your axle shafts with the detroit in the first place, you can swap them on the trail too. Make sure you have a way of removing the broken piece of axle from the carrier too. I don't know if you have the cash, but it may not be a bad idea to install disc brakes on your rear axle. This will keep your axle more or less inside the diff when you break it.

That said, if you do break an axle shaft, you should remove the broken shaft and replace it ASAP. Particularly with the front. If you leave the broken shaft inside, it will grind on itself and ultimately break other things. It does not take that long to remove or replace a broken axleshaft, and it should be considered a high priority. Same with the rear, even if you have disc brakes, you want to replace that shaft ASAP, becuase it will be wobbling around and will wreck your bearing and brakes.

 

[samsterman99]

Well, if you can install your axle shafts with the detroit in the first place, you can swap them on the trail too. Make sure you have a way of removing the broken piece of axle from the carrier too.

I don't know if you have the cash, but it may not be a bad idea to install disc brakes on your rear axle. This will keep your axle more or less inside the diff when you break it.

Well I had a shop install the detroit, I have been swamped all week and needed to get it done. the disk brakes may not be a bad idea, will that make it possible to drive out on the broken axle or no?

 

[obijuan]

Well, if you can install your axle shafts with the detroit in the first place, you can swap them on the trail too. Make sure you have a way of removing the broken piece of axle from the carrier too. I don't know if you have the cash, but it may not be a bad idea to install disc brakes on your rear axle. This will keep your axle more or less inside the diff when you break it.

That said, if you do break an axle shaft, you should remove the broken shaft and replace it ASAP. Particularly with the front. If you leave the broken shaft inside, it will grind on itself and ultimately break other things. It does not take that long to remove or replace a broken axleshaft, and it should be considered a high priority. Same with the rear, even if you have disc brakes, you want to replace that shaft ASAP, becuase it will be wobbling around and will wreck your bearing and brakes.

Throw some chromos in the back and hang with 37s. Here that's plenty acceptable on my terrain and has been done sucessfully several seasons. Drive good and you'll be happy.

 

[samsterman99]

Throw some chromos in the back and hang with 37s. Here that's plenty acceptable on my terrain and has been done sucessfully several seasons. Drive good and you'll be happy.

That's what I am thinking, I only have 35's and a pretty tired stock 350 4bbl Q jet. At least no one here has pulled the typical Pirate "14B/D60 or die" comment.

 

[obijuan]

That's what I am thinking, I only have 35's and a pretty tired stock 350 4bbl Q jet. At least no one here has pulled the typical Pirate "14B/D60 or die" comment.

I wheeled "built" 10 bolts for a long time, and then it was the natural progression to get more serious into wheelin bigger stuff.

 

[Blue85]

Call me crazy, but I think the first step is to have a spare and have it with you. And if you don't have a catch pan and some new oil, there's no point in knowing the procedure. Typically I hate gaskets on diff covers, but on the trail, it's quick and easy to throw one on. You don't need a 100% clean surface and don't have to wait for silicone to set. If it leaks a little it's OK.

 

[samsterman99]

Call me crazy, but I think the first step is to have a spare and have it with you. And if you don't have a catch pan and some new oil, there's no point in knowing the procedure. Typically I hate gaskets on diff covers, but on the trail, it's quick and easy to throw one on. You don't need a 100% clean surface and don't have to wait for silicone to set. If it leaks a little it's OK.

I'm picking up a spare set tomorrow, I have a catch pan in the truck with a funnel and a gal of fluid just in case i can't save my old stuff. Just curious how to swap the rear shafts with a detroit.

 

[pblaze725]

Rear 10blt w/ detroit locker swap

I broke an axle shaft in my Detroit locker on the trail. I fixed it at camp. It is pretty easy.
- Take off the diff cover
- use a 5/16" socket to remove the center pin
- Push the axle inward to free the C- clip
- pull the C clip out you will need a maginetic wand
- slide the axles out (remove the tires first)
- Here is the hard part..
You usually can't get the broken piece of the axle shaft out of the locker with the locker still installed.
- take the locker out & set it on a hard surface
- get a big hammer & a piece of pipe, or the broken axle shaft.
- Hammer that POS out.
- Put it all back together.


My .02 upgrade your axle shafts if you have a Detroit locker. I replaced mine with Superior axle shafts; they were about $100 each. The guy at the pic a part charged me $100 for 1 used axle. He knew I needed it bad.

Check out my thread: http://coloradok5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=279568

 

[samsterman99]

I broke an axle shaft in my Detroit locker on the trail. I fixed it at camp. It is pretty easy.
- Take off the diff cover
- use a 5/16" socket to remove the center pin
- Push the axle inward to free the C- clip
- pull the C clip out you will need a maginetic wand
- slide the axles out (remove the tires first)
- Here is the hard part..
You usually can't get the broken piece of the axle shaft out of the locker with the locker still installed.
- take the locker out & set it on a hard surface
- get a big hammer & a piece of pipe, or the broken axle shaft.
- Hammer that POS out.
- Put it all back together.

View attachment 112418
My .02 upgrade your axle shafts if you have a Detroit locker. I replaced mine with Superior axle shafts; they were about $100 each. The guy at the pic a part charged me $100 for 1 used axle. He knew I needed it bad.

Check out my thread: http://coloradok5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=279568

Awesome, thanks for the help, so was the old shaft stuck in the carrier? or stuck in the tube? The only thing that worries me is breaking the axle off halfway down the tube and not being able to pull the locker out cause the shaft is stuck in it.
I guess I might as well replace both shafts with stronger ones while it's in one piece and easy to work on. That will also give me a extra spare set.

 

[pblaze725]

You didn't check out my thread...
My axle broke inside the locker. Imagine the force of the axle twisting until it breaks. My splines were in a bind and I couldn't get it out. I had to get some help from somebody with a bigger hammer.



Notice the spiral pattern of the break. This made it difficult to get a clean whack on it. The guy's that helped me suggested using the broken shaft & lining up the break to punch it out.
They used a piece of sprinkler pipe & a BIG hammer. I now keep the same in my camping tools, along with 2 spare axle shafts.

 

[samsterman99]

You didn't check out my thread...
My axle broke inside the locker. Imagine the force of the axle twisting until it breaks. My splines were in a bind and I couldn't get it out. I had to get some help from somebody with a bigger hammer.

View attachment 112419

Notice the spiral pattern of the break. This made it difficult to get a clean whack on it. The guy's that helped me suggested using the broken shaft & lining up the break to punch it out.
They used a piece of sprinkler pipe & a BIG hammer. I now keep the same in my camping tools, along with 2 spare axle shafts.

Oh I know, you got it tough with it breaking off INSIDE the locker, but I was thinking if there was a 6 inch piece sticking out of the locker, then how do I pull it out of the locker by reaching down the axle tube? I would need the worlds longest needle nose pliers ever. Do you happen to know the OD of the pipe you carry?

 

[bot0611]

im running a welded 12 bolt wich i want to put a limited lip in and drive it kind of hard off road, i already replaced the axle shafts for some aftermaket ones forget i think they are superior axle and put 9/16" stud but still when i go out theres always the thought in the back of my mind of breaking an axle wich id say sucks big time......but with beffier shafts, good C clips and a moderate and consious driving you will be ok. and carry a spare with nuts as well and diff fluid i get laughed at cause i carry spare parts but who will be driving home if something breaks...

Are there disc brake convertion for the 10 bolt?

 

[pblaze725]

Oh I know, you got it tough with it breaking off INSIDE the locker, but I was thinking if there was a 6 inch piece sticking out of the locker, then how do I pull it out of the locker by reaching down the axle tube? I would need the worlds longest needle nose pliers ever. Do you happen to know the OD of the pipe you carry?

I think the pipe is 1.25 OD.
The guy that installed my locker warned me that I would break an axle with the Detroit. He said they break in 2 places.
1- Right next to the splines where they engage into the locker
2- where the axle shaft rides on the outer seal.
Hypothetically if I snapped the shaft in the middle of the tube I think I would take out the other axle shaft and slide a longer pipe in there & hammer it out.
Maybe I should get a pipe long enough to go from the end of the axle to thru the locker to contact the other axle. this would be like 3'-6" or so.
Maybe we should get some C- clip eliminators...

 

[samsterman99]

I think the pipe is 1.25 OD.
The guy that installed my locker warned me that I would break an axle with the Detroit. He said they break in 2 places.
1- Right next to the splines where they engage into the locker
2- where the axle shaft rides on the outer seal.
Hypothetically if I snapped the shaft in the middle of the tube I think I would take out the other axle shaft and slide a longer pipe in there & hammer it out.
Maybe I should get a pipe long enough to go from the end of the axle to thru the locker to contact the other axle. this would be like 3'-6" or so.
Maybe we should get some C- clip eliminators...

Hmm, now the detroit out back has me a little worried. Mainly of snapping it going around a turn or something where there is a chance of actual danger if my wheel comes off. Those C clip eliminators look nice, it would make changing shafts on the trail a lot easier, not FF easy, but we shouldnt have to pop the cover off, unless it broke where yours did. Maybe solve that by a 6 foot piece of pipe, and a strong magnet inside sitting flush on one end of the pipe to fish anything out of the tube.

 

[blazinzuk]

I built a little thing you could slide down the axle tube with a large magnet in the middle for my bro in law. We only used it once, slid it down the tube to the broken shaft and beat on the carrier with a mallet till it dislodged. It took a while.

Bring zip lock bags. we drained his fluid into a ziplock back took out the big chunks while it was draining, then we put the diff cover back on with all the gear oil still on the ziplock bag. No mess. We actually had to transfer the gear oil to two smaller bags to get it back in but no filling or anything.

When we drained the oil there was no sign of the plastic bags.

Just remember axle shafts rarely break where it is convenient so be prepared with a big base for whatever jack you are using and make sure there are several jacking points on the rear

 

[pblaze725]

Axle wear points

Pics I took for you: This is the axle I pulled from the junkyard when I broke mine.

see how the wear points are on the ends.

This is where it rides on the outer seal

the axle is thinner where the splines are.
This is where it would most likely break.

Having a Detroit in the rear is awesome! You just have to let off the gas on turns (unless you want to do a controlled maneuver).

 

[6.2Blazer]

Do you have a 28 or 30-spline 10-bolt? It's a moot point now but if the truck was about an '88 or later with 28-spline shafts you really should have upgraded to the 30-spline version which requires a different version Detroit.

Do a search for c-clip eliminators as the topic has been discussed extensively over the years. The general consensus is they are not a good option for trucks. The theory is good, but most kits are designed for drag cars that only see straight line racing and not the large side loads of big tires and off road trucks.

With disc brakes in the rear they will keep from immediately loosing a rear wheel if the shaft breaks off inside the tube or at the diff, and may or may not help if it breaks off at the end of the tube at the bearing. In any case you will probably be able to limp off the trail but it's not really safe to drive on the road unless limping a few miles. It will be very hard on the brakes and bearings.

 

[samsterman99]

Do you have a 28 or 30-spline 10-bolt? It's a moot point now but if the truck was about an '88 or later with 28-spline shafts you really should have upgraded to the 30-spline version which requires a different version Detroit.

Do a search for c-clip eliminators as the topic has been discussed extensively over the years. The general consensus is they are not a good option for trucks. The theory is good, but most kits are designed for drag cars that only see straight line racing and not the large side loads of big tires and off road trucks.

With disc brakes in the rear they will keep from immediately loosing a rear wheel if the shaft breaks off inside the tube or at the diff, and may or may not help if it breaks off at the end of the tube at the bearing. In any case you will probably be able to limp off the trail but it's not really safe to drive on the road unless limping a few miles. It will be very hard on the brakes and bearings.

Pblaze, Thanks for the pictures, also awesome fab job on the bumpers. I am lovin em.
I have a 1986, and it has the 28 splines. I thought about going up to 30's while I was in there, but I literally thew all the money i had into this swap and I wanted to make sure I got a real locker and new gears. After some searching I have found out that the only good C clip eliminators are pretty expensive with the bigger and better side load bearings. At that point it looks like the disc brake conversion is just a better deal.

 

[gotblazers]

Same with the rear, even if you have disc brakes, you want to replace that shaft ASAP, becuase it will be wobbling around and will wreck your bearing and brakes.

, Wrecked my front stub shaft on my k5 a month ago and ive been runnin in 2 wheel drive since. Havent noticed any problems yet except the weird vibrations from not running a front drive shaft. Sheared the u-joint in half to