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Battery Cables

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I never really understood the whole Ford starter solenoid thing anyway. You still need the factory solenoid to fling the gear out to spin the flexplate/flywheel... and once that happens the solenoid automatically makes contact to spin the motor... so why people use an expensive Ford solenoid instead of an el-cheapo relay is beyond me.

The main reason I'd do it is that it'd be a convenient spot to steal power from... but you still have to re-route the alternator wire and you'll have to use an even bigger wire because you've added several feet to it...

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1. Don't knock the Ford solenoid til you try it.

2. That "expensive" ford solenoid is rated for the current draw of the starter. Try that with your cheap relay and it won't take long before you realize why the Ford solenoid is the cheap way to do this.

3. Rerouting, adding a fuse, and using bigger wire isn't such a bad idea on the alternator anyway. The factory wire is only #10 AFIAK, and is unfused.
 
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1. Don't knock the Ford solenoid til you try it.

2. That "expensive" ford solenoid is rated for the current draw of the starter. Try that with your cheap relay and it won't take long before you realize why the Ford solenoid is the cheap way to do this.

3. Rerouting, adding a fuse, and using bigger wire isn't such a bad idea on the alternator anyway. The factory wire is only #10 AFIAK, and is unfused.

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1. I have one. It's between my two batteries.

2. You don't need 300 amps to engage the solenoid on the starter. The solenoid on the starter takes less than 10 amps last I checked. Last I knew all you were doing by putting the Ford solenoid in was giving a full 12 volts to the solenoid on the GM starter. Or, are people starting to bypass the contacts in the GM solenoid that normally power the starter? If so, it seems to me that this would ruin a lot of bendixes because the starter would start turning before the gear was all the way on the flywheel/flexplate (which is why GM starters usually fail in the bushing department instead of ruining gears).

3. New wire on the alternator is a good idea. You're only going around 3.5' which is why they get away with 10 gauge through around 80amps. After that they started bumping the wire up to 8 gauge. I've seen 6 gauge on F-bodies and the such.
 
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1. I have one. It's between my two batteries.

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Here you are knocking someone else, well I'm going to knock your idea for a minute.

A ford solenoid is not made or intended for this purpose, and I'm sure you know better.

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2. You don't need 300 amps to engage the solenoid on the starter. The solenoid on the starter takes less than 10 amps last I checked. Last I knew all you were doing by putting the Ford solenoid in was giving a full 12 volts to the solenoid on the GM starter. Or, are people starting to bypass the contacts in the GM solenoid that normally power the starter? If so, it seems to me that this would ruin a lot of bendixes because the starter would start turning before the gear was all the way on the flywheel/flexplate (which is why GM starters usually fail in the bushing department instead of ruining gears).

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It works. Like I said, don't knock it until you try it.
 
Do not use the Ford starter solinoid between batteries.
Bubba said it best.. hotdog and marshmallow time.
Use a constant duty solinoid for that.
I did the Ford starter solinoid deal long ago. best way to rout new wires and get rid of heat soak. I used battery cables for a semi.
2o cable. All soldered and heat shrinked.
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You don't need 300 amps to engage the solenoid on the starter. The solenoid on the starter takes less than 10 amps last I checked. Last I knew all you were doing by putting the Ford solenoid in was giving a full 12 volts to the solenoid on the GM starter. Or, are people starting to bypass the contacts in the GM solenoid that normally power the starter? If so, it seems to me that this would ruin a lot of bendixes because the starter would start turning before the gear was all the way on the flywheel/flexplate (which is why GM starters usually fail in the bushing department instead of ruining gears).


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Typicaly a starter draws about 1.5 amps per cubic inch.
Run a 10 ga wire from the + post on the starter to the solinoid.
When using a Ford solinoid current is supplied to the starter and the starter solinoid at the same time.
When ya hit the key it supplies power to both run the starter and kick the solinoid, let off the key and there is no power to either. The GM solinoid may only require 10 amps but wiring it that way ensures full battery voltage to it and you don't supply power to the starter until it is needed. No more heat soak.

As to fusible links.. I installed 30 amp circuit breakers.
Sooo.. with the solinoid mounted next to the battery I have direct current to the battery, and 8ga wire from the alternator to the hot side. 10 ga wire feeding power to the j-block with the 30 amp breakers.
All nice and neat and routed in plastic conduit.
The headlight relay trick was next.. but I'm still trying to get an engine put together.
That's next.
 
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Do not use the Ford starter solinoid between batteries.
Bubba said it best.. hotdog and marshmallow time.
Use a constant duty solinoid for that.
I did the Ford starter solinoid deal long ago. best way to rout new wires and get rid of heat soak. I used battery cables for a semi.
2o cable. All soldered and heat shrinked.

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"Your truck is going to burn to the ground if you use a Ford solenoid between your batteries." "Satan will steal your soul if you use a front spool." "You're going to blow up your axle if you set up the gears yourself."

JFC.

Let's see... what happens when you use a non-100% duty cycle solenoid and use it 100% all the time? Worst case scenario... you burn the coil out of the solenoid and it no longer works. There is no death and destruction except for poor Mr. Solenoid. For $4.34 out the door I can get a Ford starter solenoid. It costs around $40 for one out of a golf cart or between the batteries on a diesel. The really neat thing is that sometimes you happen to get a 100% duty cycle solenoid when you buy the $4.34 Ford one.

I have a Ford solenoid between my batteries. It only gets used when I'm winching. I have had it on as long as an hour and a half before... no fires... and it still works. If Warn can use Mexican solenoids in their winches I can use them between my batteries.

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Typicaly a starter draws about 1.5 amps per cubic inch.
Run a 10 ga wire from the + post on the starter to the solinoid.
When using a Ford solinoid current is supplied to the starter and the starter solinoid at the same time.
When ya hit the key it supplies power to both run the starter and kick the solinoid, let off the key and there is no power to either. The GM solinoid may only require 10 amps but wiring it that way ensures full battery voltage to it and you don't supply power to the starter until it is needed. No more heat soak.

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So, you agree with me that it takes less than 10 amps to operate the GM starter solenoid? The problem, to my knowledge, is that by the time the power to engage the solenoid runs from the starter, to the ingition switch, and back to the trigger terminal on the solenoid there is serious voltage drop. I don't think you're going to find much voltage drop between the battery and the starter itself especially when a 2 gauge cable is used. So, why not just stick a relay in that steals power directly from the battery and sends it down to the GM starter solenoid?

Why do I want to leave things alone? Because by moving everything you need bigger wires to combat voltage drop even if you do move the fusible links.

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As to fusible links.. I installed 30 amp circuit breakers.
Sooo.. with the solinoid mounted next to the battery I have direct current to the battery, and 8ga wire from the alternator to the hot side. 10 ga wire feeding power to the j-block with the 30 amp breakers.
All nice and neat and routed in plastic conduit.
The headlight relay trick was next.. but I'm still trying to get an engine put together.
That's next.

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Self-resetting circuit breakers aren't cheap, where'd you find them at? If I were going to rewire all that stuff I think I'd have bumped it up one wire size. Headlight relays are pretty easy but my OE quad-headlight pickup didn't benefit from it (designed to have all four on with highbeams). All I kept was a single DPST relay so when I put my highbeams on all four stay lit up with my 89-91 front clip.
 
I dont know if its the right thing to do,but every time I remove a starter from my trucks,I take the wires that power the rest of the truck with the fusible links that goes behind the battery cable at the solenoid,and through that retarded tube that bolts to the bellhousing,and run them to the positive battery terminal right at the battery--I've only had to add about a foot of 10 ga wire to reach.I dont see any ill effects from the added wire(its soldered good)if anything,it has made my lights brighter at night,and the battery seems to have more kick too.I got tired of those wires burning on the hot exhaust manifold,even when routed correctly in the tube they can burn.The older 60's trucks had the wires at the battery,dont know why they changed them.
As for the ford solenoid,I still dont fuly understand how it will help anything--yes,it will allow a full 12 volts to the gm starter,but as another poster stated,the solenoid still has to pull the gear into the flywheel--I've only had one motor that has heat soak problems,the 400 small block in my plow truck--I've put welding cable,rebuilt starters,new batteries,and if you get it good and hot and shut it off for 3 or 4 minites,it will just grunt and groan,and burn the battery cable--only way to start it is to wait 10 minites--then its fine--its done this for 10 years--I think one of those super duty tilton style starters is the only cure for it--but it aint gettin one! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
I know we discussed ford solenoids at lenth in other posts,so I wont elaborate here,but for those who may not have read the other posts,be aware a ford solenoid CAN and WILL burn your truck down if you leave it on constantly--I sold one to a customer not knowing he was hooking it to his beacon lights for his plow,and his truck burned to the ground 20 minites later,granted,where he put the solenoid may have had a lot to do with it,but if he told me what he wanted it for I would have sold him a good continuous duty solenoid like a cole-hersee.
I have a crane with a small winch,and I use 4 ford solenoids for the power in-out switch,and have abused the hell out of them,lifting heavy motors and such,even to the point of stalling the winch,and killing the battery,and I too have yet to change one,but they do stick lately and you have to repeatedly click the switch to get them to kick in--when I checked them for loose connections,I could see the brass posts had melted into the bakelite case somewhat,but they still work!--and they are bolted in a metal box under the rear of the bed near the crane so there isnt any real danger to the vehicle if they burn. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gifWhen they do die comepletly,I'll upgrade to the continuous duty ones. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
 
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Self-resetting circuit breakers aren't cheap, where'd you find them at?

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Well since I work at the Mack and Volvo dealership, I got them from work. Employee discount and all that. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
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