I have some comments on this.
Let me make some very clear points on this topic:
First off let me make some items very clear here regarding this specific topic. We have been doing this run to Parker now for over 4 years. The post that I created in the Arizona Regional Forum talks very clearly about trail rigs being ready and how hardcore the trails are in Parker. I personally think Bob is a good guy, and don’t mistake that, but by making the decision to wheel this trail with a non trail ready rig, and knowing how hard this trail was, he did not objectively think about how his decision would effect the others in the group. His choice not mine, I’m not his dad.
Yes trail breakage happens, but this trip to Parker had been posted up many weeks before this trip, and many discussions were had about spare parts and body damage/breakage that would absolutely happen when the trails in Parker are run.
Due to these circumstances, I feel the better decision, would have been not to run the trails due to the risk of breakage/damage, and vehicle readiness, but due to the personalities of this large group, no one wanted to be the bad guy, and nothing was said to Bob due to hurt feelings etc...
Does this mean that Bob is a bad guy, not at all, it just means that better discussions should have be had with Bob and the others in the group. Put yourself in Bob’s shoes, towed all the way to Parker and get’s told his rig’s not really ready to wheel the trails, and he’s on his own. Would that not have sucked to been told this??
Parker is a long way away, and everyone want’s to have a good time, very tough decision to be made, and it was not made.
This won’t happen again, and I promise before the next large trail run, any rig showing up not prepared nor trail worthy will not run the trail with me personally and I will not dice words/personalities/or feelings, regarding this topic, and does not matter who is ready. If this makes me the bad guy, oh well. Does it mean I don’t like you personally, hell no. It just means come as prepared as you can.
Remember, for the most part, the majority of the group planned for days/weeks/months for this trip. Most take valuable vacation time from work, save dollars to budget for this trip, plan and anticipate, purchase groceries, take kids out of school, and stay up many late nights preparing for this trip for both trail rigs, campers, trailers, and tow rigs. We spend lots of time and money PREPARING for this trip, hoping to keep the self inflicted damage as low or minimal as possible.
It should be a given that anyone that runs any trails with any group, spends time thinking about how well his rig is prepared to run the trip specific trails. Questions to ask yourself, would be; is my rig prepared to run the trail, if my rig is under prepared, will breakage delay the others from wheeling because its not easily repaired? These are just a few of the questions that should be asked by the owner of the rig.
If the person asking these questions, is not thinking about these items before he shows up to the trail run, or starts thinking of these items the day of the trail run, then in my opinion they are being selfish to themselves and not thinking of the others. Especially if you have run with us previously, as we have never left anyone behind on any trail broken.
It’s a decision that each person has to make and not an easy decision. I want to show up to run the trail, but I’m not really sure if my rig is ready to wheel the level of trail that everyone is running. How do I know if my truck is ready for the trail until I show up and try it. It’s a very tough situation for someone that does not wheel all of the time, especially local runs versus long distant runs.
If you are back and forth over these items in your planning and preparations, then start asking people questions about what they think. Don’t wait until the day of the run and ask the question, then you will be all hurt about wasting the time and money to get to the trail, and feel like the person telling you these things is, “holier than thou”, who does he think he is????
Now, we have set an example in all of our past runs, not worrying too much about peoples rigs, as nothing has been said, this is OUR fault, it has been an pattern that no one has stopped or said anything about until now. So, in Bob’s defense, he remembered the last trips he took with us and used them as examples of what he has been exposed to with us. Everyone that goes in together comes out together. He did what we patterned and showed him, based on all the previous runs, this was as much our problem as his because we have never cared about getting into these discussion with others, as we are not a club or an organized group. Just a bunch of people that like to wheel together. There has always been an underlying understanding of being prepared, but underlying and out in the open understandings are totally different, it’s like ASSUMING something, you make and ass out of you and me. Our fault just as much as Bob’s.
Now, trail breakage is normal, and $hit happens, this is totally understandable. Everyone accepts it, no questions asked, it’s part of wheeling, and there is not preparation in the world that is going to change the Rock Gods opinion on this, when it’s your number it’s your number, without proper sacrifice, to the Rock Gods, sooner or later they are going to spank you hard and it’s going to be a long day and long night on the trail.
Comments from posters like "stick it to the man, or back of the group" is total bull$hit. This statement is a webwheelers comment that does not understand or has no concept of the meaning of the original post. Was the original post harsh, YES, did it suck to be Bob that day, YES, did everyone help to get Bob off the trail that day, YES, did anyone even think about leaving him on the trail alone to work out his issues, NO WAY, did we loose some good wheeling time due to this breakage, YES, did we all learn some valuable lessons from this situation, YES, do we like Bob any less for what happened, HELL NO. But sometimes the facts are the facts, and they are not pleasant.
Overall, if you don’t like it, and you have been told by someone that has the wheeling experience, not to run the trail, and you do it anyways, against better judgment, then in my mind you deserve what you get, due to the fact that ego is making a decision instead of fact. Why should I give up my hard earned vacation, money and time to someone that made a decision for himself and not for the group. I prepared, they did not.
NOTE:
Let me be very clear on this post. I am responding to the topic by the poster talking about “Stick it to the man, Or back of the Group”. I totally disagree with this statement, think this statement comes from a web wheeling position instead of experience.
These comments are my OPINIONS, and everyone has them, they are like A$$holes, everyone has one. That’s great, you can have your opinion, and I will have mine.
Also let me be very clear about Bob, I like Bob, he’s a very personable person, and we have had some great fun together as a group. The situation that arose in Parker just happen to have happened to Bob, it could have been anyone. Bob just happened to be the person, is this a personal attack on Bob, hell no, and if you think this, then you did not get anything about what this post is about.
Here is a totally made up scenario for you, what would you do:
You have been wheeling with a group of guys for a while, someone who has not been wheeling with the group but hangs out on a Internet sight show up on a posted trail run.
The person that show up, is not built by any means but decides to run the trail anyways after some comments have been made about how hard the trail is on both sheet metal, and drive-train parts.
The person decides to run, even after more comments about how hard the trail is and how hard it is on parts. Get to the trail and some of the people in the group with built rigs are hammering there way through the trail and sheet metal is getting pounded into submission on the leading trail rigs.
The person then watches the built rig break an front axle and takes the winch to get through the spot. This person has just watched the built rig tear up $hit to get through the spot and decides he can do it, even though he is concerned with his sheet metal, someone walks up to this person, and say, "you are going to tear up you vehicle in this spot, don't think you should try this", the person tries it anyways.
Destroys many miles of sheet metal and then breaks rear axle and front outer stub shaft and hub, in the middle of the obstacle.
Looks like a hurt puppy, and has no winch, on spares, and no real tools. There are now 10 other rigs to get through the obstacle still.
An to boot, he drove the rig from home and needs to drive it back home.
No tools, no winch, no spares, and has no way to get home, but would not listen to anyone that told him his $hit was not ready, and to boot he watched the other guy in front of him with a built rig grenade an axle and took a winch to get out.
The others he knows, but does not really hang with except on a website all had spares and tow rigs and tools.
Then they ask for help, admits they have no way to fix his breakage or anyway to get home.
Who made the bad decision, now???? Who should be responsible for his actions???
I absolutely am not going to put up with a crapload of feedback from web wheelers, if you don’t have some experience on this topic, and it gets out of hand, I’m going to delete it.
(BTW - Pauly, get some different rod
) It was a cool fix, but at the same time it wasn't a cool situation
.
