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BB Tech Inspection

I don't think anyone wants to be saddled with the responsibility of being the "tech nazi" at these events....No matter how much you try to enforce rules, by the time everyone is in Moab it's already too late. People who are there are going to want to wheel no matter what the tech inspector says.

I think a great compromise is to simply provide a two-part checklist as part of the online registration process for the BlazerBash event:

1: A list of "official" trail runs along with a rating system for difficulty (1 - 5), paired against a list of modifications that are recommended to sucessfully run the trail. Imagine a sort of matrix with checkboxes for things like lockers, winch, 35+" Tires, etc. Lower rated trail runs will require less preparation, the hardest trails will require a serious commitment to hit all the checkboxes.

2: A list of recovery gear and spares that should be carried. Again, nobody HAS to carry everything on these lists, but for those who aren't experienced wheelers the list will really help them to prepare themselves for the trip, and avoid becoming "that guy" on the trail. Tow straps, u-joints, extra fluids, etc.


Ultimately, you can't force people to prepare themselves for this trip but it's safe to assume that the majority of people who attend WANT to be prepared and would rather wheel than spend the day broken down on the trail. By providing these lists at the time of registration, everyone has them well in advance of the actual event and will be able to see what is recommended. I know that for me personally, it would be great to look at someone else's checklist as a sanity check to make sure I remembered to pack everything.



:usaflag:
 
I know that I may be over stepping my bounds here since I have yet to make a Blazer Bash but, perhaps it should not be called a tech inspection. More of a safety inspection like Blazinzuk has hit on. No roll cage, then you need to have a hard top. No winch, have some tow points. Battery hold downs, no bungie cords allowed. And I think that part of the experience is just wheeling and learning. 10 bolt axles will live under a full size if driven carefully. I have even seen front and rear Dana 44's live up to 44" TSL's. There was a fella who competed in Top Truck Challenge who proved they can work. I think his name was Paul Foster Sr.

Long story short, what would a Blazer Bash be without some breakage and folks getting stuck? That is what this is about. Helping others who may just be starting out in this hobby. We cannot afford to turn folks away from this hobby just because they don't have all the right equipment. We all had to start somewhere and I'll bet we all did not have bullet proof equipment.

LT.
 
Mkay. Back in. But just for a moment. :D

LT. said:
Long story short, what would a Blazer Bash be without some breakage and folks getting stuck? That is what this is about.
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Really? I must have missed that memo. Somebody please forward that to me.

Seriously: If breaking trucks and getting stuck is really what people want Blazer Bash to be - and apparently that seems be a more broader notion, I remember Rene writing something similar - then let's please clarify that point for BB'11. I'd like to know. Really.

Moab trails have a way of biting trucks in the behind all by themselves - there's no need asking for it.

LT. said:
We cannot afford to turn folks away from this hobby just because they don't have all the right equipment. We all had to start somewhere and I'll bet we all did not have bullet proof equipment.
LT.
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Who was turning anyone away from this hobby?
Where did that notion come from in the first place?
 
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I sure don't want to haul my junk 1500 miles and have it break down, fix it, and break down again. I will try my best to have the Iron Maiden in great shape for wheeling what I am comfortable with. I doubt I will hit the hardest trails, just because of my lack of experience, but who knows, with some coaching and spotting, I might. At any rate, having come out to ride along this year was an eye opener for me, and Seeing how some of the rigs are built (and driven) will help me better prepare my truck for next year.
If breakage happens to anyone I'm with, I'll be one of the helpers to get em fixed again. Thats a great part about wheeling with a group of friends, the challenge of a repair/stuck/or other situation and coming out of it as a group feeling good about getting it done.
So again, safety should be a #1 priority....I noticed a few on the trails without any belts on, without even a door bar on the truck, just saying...a possible bad outcome there, and then a bad rap for the group when someone finds out about it, and it gets blown out of proportion. I think this should try to be avoided. I know we don't have a competition sanctioning body for our events, but they are on mostly public land, and bad press certainly should be avoided.
And maybe a tech check list left up to the owner when registering....
 
76zimmer said:
I sure don't want to haul my junk 1500 miles and have it break down, fix it, and break down again. I will try my best to have the Iron Maiden in great shape for wheeling what I am comfortable with. I doubt I will hit the hardest trails, just because of my lack of experience, but who knows, with some coaching and spotting, I might. At any rate, having come out to ride along this year was an eye opener for me, and Seeing how some of the rigs are built (and driven) will help me better prepare my truck for next year.
If breakage happens to anyone I'm with, I'll be one of the helpers to get em fixed again. Thats a great part about wheeling with a group of friends, the challenge of a repair/stuck/or other situation and coming out of it as a group feeling good about getting it done.
So again, safety should be a #1 priority....I noticed a few on the trails without any belts on, without even a door bar on the truck, just saying...a possible bad outcome there, and then a bad rap for the group when someone finds out about it, and it gets blown out of proportion. I think this should try to be avoided. I know we don't have a competition sanctioning body for our events, but they are on mostly public land, and bad press certainly should be avoided.
And maybe a tech check list left up to the owner when registering....
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This was put into words much better than I could. This is what I was trying to say.

JMS- I was trying to make sure that if folks had rigs that were maybe not up to par for any trail a suggestion maybe in order to try a different trail instead of just telling them that they cannot pass a tech inspection. Stock rig on 31's should avoid Pritchett and perhaps go to Fins-n-things. That kind of thing.

LT.
 
I like the checklist for both the vehicle and its equipment and recovery/safety gear. The personal items is a good reminder also like the meds, sunscreen, hat, water, FOOD etc.

I also like the idea of it being handled with registration, when you sign up for a trail maybe have a printable checklist for that trail with a request please try and have as many of these items as you can so as to make the trail run safe and enjoyable for everyone.

This would eliminate the inspection stations and whining because one truck made it and the other one didn't then find out that the truck that made it is the one that broke. Yes it would be more of an honor system than anything but I think it is a step in the right direction without setting up a checkpoint at blazer bash. If you are a member of a group or club then take it upon yourselves to check each member of the group out.

It seems difficult enough to find plenty of trail leaders and gunners for all the trails let alone find enough people to man tech inspection stations.

Just my .0123456789 cents (adjusted for the current value of the dollar)
 
jms said:
Mkay. Back in. But just for a moment. :D



Really? I must have missed that memo. Somebody please forward that to me.

Seriously: If breaking trucks and getting stuck is really what people want Blazer Bash to be - and apparently that seems be a more broader notion, I remember Rene writing something similar - then let's please clarify that point for BB'11. I'd like to know. Really.

Moab trails have a way of biting trucks in the behind all by themselves - there's no need asking for it.



Who was turning anyone away from this hobby?
Where did that notion come from in the first place?
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Michael, I see you have jumped in again and I'm glad to be honest. My earlier comments may not have come across quite as I intended. Ideally nobody would break anything and we'd all have 3 or 4 wonderful days of wheeling the most amazing terrain I've ever seen. Moab does test your truck though, and the farther away you hail from the harder it may be to predict where the weak link is going to be when you get there.

I showed up in '03 on a fairly fresh build, had gone over every single nut and bolt of the truck 4 or 5 times before leaving. Guess what, steering arm bolts either worked loose or were overlooked 4 or 5 times before I left. I was 'that guy' on the unofficial Friday in what is now BFE. My steering arm studs sheared, well 3 out of 4 anyways. FWP helped me repair the damage on Saturday morning. After the repair we pretty much headed straight for Pritchett after running into BadDog in town...the goal was the catch up to the main group. Pritchett is challenging, much moreso when you're trying to do it fast and have never done it before.

I doinked my rear driveshaft on an innocent looking ledge, and by that time BadDog's Lock-right had completely given up...we turned around (much to FWP's chagrin I'm sure).

I guess what I was trying to say earlier was that tech inspections may have caught a few things this year...but it would not have caught Russ's bad lock right, or my driveshaft implosion on Pritchett. A tech inspection may not have caught my slightly loose steering arm either. Stuff happens. Would "tech" have caught the oil filter debacle? Not in a million years. Should we all lay down and cry ourselves to sleep over these things? Hell no, and this was the point i tried to make earlier. At some point in Moab the unexpected will happen, and for a lot of us the comraderie and collective imagination, creativity, and "get er done" attitude will prevail over the problem. There is a certain satisfaction in this. It's not the goal of BB'XX for any of this to happen, but inevitably it does. How we choose to respond and remember it is something entirely different though.

Due the the weird breakage in '03 I got to know Fred (FWP) and Russ (BadDog) and Donna (AJ's girlfriend if you remember them) and Greg72 and Dirk a lot better than if everything had gone super smooth. Call it the booby prize of breaking. The entire event is an adventure, and you cannot remove all possibility of mechanical failure with a simple tech inspection.

I intend to be at BB '11, and I intend to make the best of each and every day...whether I'm wheeling and enjoying the most astounding scenery ever, or I'm helping someone put their junk back together...or someone is helping me put my junk back together. '11 could be your year to be "that guy"
Michael. Would you open a wrist, or make the best of a bad situation?

Rene
 
tRustyK5 said:
.... '11 could be your year to be "that guy"
Michael. Would you open a wrist, or make the best of a bad situation?
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Interesting. What a weird way to put things. Somehow I hear that maybe I shouldn't go.

I've broken stuff in Moab, extricated myself in some instances, received much appreciated help in others, and I've helped other people wherever I could. While these are interesting and fun memories, they are a rather small part of my Moab experience, and I plan on keeping it that way. I happen to like the several thousand photos from the rest of my times in Moab a lot more.

I seriously disagree with the attitude that it's inevitable to break on the trail, and it's gonna be great to fix it together and overcome the adversity.
 
jms said:
Interesting. What a weird way to put things. Somehow I hear that maybe I shouldn't go.

Let me be the first to say - YOU CANNOT LET THIS CONVERSATION KEEP YOU AWAY FROM BLAZER BASH, you are practically an institution at Blazer Bash Michael


I seriously disagree with the attitude that it's inevitable to break on the trail, and it's gonna be great to fix it together and overcome the adversity.
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I think this comes down to a difference of perspective and not a difference that should keep us from wheeling together
More on this ^ point later, gotta go hike up a big mountain today!
 
Travis, thanks. But: I am not Blazer Bash. It'll work fine without me. :waytogo:

Rene, I carry razor blades in my toolbox, just in case.

The point was made earlier that it ought to be a personal honor system to make sure your truck is up to snuff. With that perspective, I'm arguing here that the attitude behind "...what would a Blazer Bash be without some breakage and folks getting stuck? That is what this is about...." is not a useful one - and no, I'm not picking on you, LT, I'm just using the previously used verbiage to make this point, and Rene's stuff was too complicated to quote...:laugh:.
I'm suggesting that the attitude that "...breaking your truck in Moab is inevitable, but it's ok because we'll have a good time no matter what..." is not a useful one to start with. On the contrary, it'll open the door for somebody who didn't read the personal honor/courtesy memo.
 
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i don't think I used 'inevitable' anywhere (on re-read I guess I did)...and that certainly isn't my mindset. I do acknowledge the potential for anything mechanical to fail when pushed to it's design limit, whether it's once or a hundred times. No cursory tech inspection will eliminate that.

The rest is just my own personality. I will have fun, whether it's the BBQ, wheeling, BS'ing around a campfire, dinner in town, or in the unfortunate event of a break, wrenching in east bumblefukk. Lemons = lemonade.

Would I prefer 100% wheeling and 0% wrenching? Absolutely. As soon as we all show up with zero moving parts i'm sure that'll happen too.

Rene
 
One idea I have found to be truth is coming to a head here. There are 2 ways to use a vehicle in offroad:

1: transportation - your vehicle is built and driven to get you to a destination in the most efficient way possible. If you have to use the winch or take a tug, it's not a big deal, the goal is not testing the vehicle and driver.

2: entertainment - your vehicle is built and driven to be a toy. You are offroad to challenge the build and your skills and test their limits.

Everyone tends toward a different mix of these element by nature and the balance of these priorities will also vary with a lot of factors. The relavant factors for us being length of trail, time of day, vehicle equipment, recovery resources, and I'm sure a few others.

By nature, Salbaum (good example for now) is a transportation vehicle user. His K5 is built to take him places he could not go in a reasonable timeframe without it. His driving priority is primarily getting himself and the truck to (or through) a destination. This wheeling mindset if useful around Moab because of the terrain involved. But his driving skills were at least partially gained by doing more than would be involved to simply get through a trail.

I don't have a good example of a "entertainment" guy, maybe because we're all there to a large degree. This type of use is ideally seen in an offroad park of some sort where the vehicle/driver combo can play hard and test the limits without much consequence. If you break big time, drag it to a trailer and it's all good. If you bust a shaft in your 1/2T rear every other time you take it out, it's not a problem till you get tired of fixing it in the field.

The balance between these two wheeling mindsets is possibly at the core of what we're discussing here. Some of the trails around Moab demand the ability to just flat travel efficiently and somewhat quickly and the spike is a great example and is probably why this all came to a head now.

I have no problem with playing on obstacles and testing truck/driver limits but the consequences have to be taken into account. As an example, a busted axle on hell's revenge is not really a big deal, the run to town is pretty easy or it's easy to tow it out. A busted anything on the top of the spike is much bigger deal due to the distance and difficulty of the road in and out.

Guys that wheel out west tend to have a bit more "transportation" built in due to the distances involved. I've been places that are a 100 miles to any kind of services, sometimes on the interstates! This terrain demands some extra vehicle prep and equipment and some extra driver skill and judgement.

All that said, blazerbash has always been a good event for noobs since you are in with lots of other vehicles and drivers with similar equipment. I can't think of a better way to learn the ropes and have a good time. I often recommend integrating Blazerbash into a big trip when I talk to guys that dream about coming to Moab because I know they'll be with a group that will take care of them when it's necessary.

We really just need to focus on education here.
A "safety inspection" is a good idea but I also wonder if it couldn't run on the honor system with a checklist.
Equipment recommendations can and should (and have been) be made in the trail descriptions and they should be taken to heart.
Keep in mind the balance between travel and play and remember it can change. Think about your own primary mindset and be aware of when it's the wrong one.

Now I need to do other stuff.
 
What I'm trying to get at is that the part of "...stuff will break at some point and if it does, we'll try our best to fix it..." is plan B.

I firmly believe that "...we'll try our best to have the truck prepared as much possible, and not try to break it deliberately..." must be plan A.:waytogo:

If there's something that might help in making plan A successful, I think it ought to be pursued - be it the checklist, honor system, an inspection, or spending the Blazer Bash Friday in the ORD Moab Driving School....:D

P.S. In case it wasn't apparent: Stephen's reference to 'Salbaum' in the post above - that's me. And no, I'm not arguing for anyone to be afraid of the first rock they encounter out there...
 
jms said:
What I'm trying to get at is that the part of "...stuff will break at some point and if it does, we'll try our best to fix it..." is plan B.

I firmly believe that "...we'll try our best to have the truck prepared as much possible, and not try to break it deliberately..." must be plan A.:waytogo:

If there's something that might help in making plan A successful, I think it ought to be pursued - be it the checklist, honor system, an inspection, or spending the Blazer Bash Friday in the ORD Moab Driving School....:D

P.S. In case it wasn't apparent: Stephen's reference to 'Salbaum' in the post above - that's me. And no, I'm not arguing for anyone to be afraid of the first rock they encounter out there...
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Agree 100%. My goal is always to have my truck as prepared as humanly possible, and not to deliberately try and break anything. I'm one of those odd people that drive their wheelin rig to and from the event, and I wheel/drive accordingly.

Maybe a cursory check combined with a 'shakedown' in the twisty piles at BFE is the answer? I'm good with whatever to be honest.

Rene
 
The really interesting thing here is everyone who is participating in this discussion is what Micheal put so succinctly, are plan A guys.


I think blazer bash was awesome as a a first time attendee. Any organized trail ride is going to have a couple guys who aren't well prepared and some that are the best prepared who have troubles. Thats part of wheeling and part of the reason I go. Those guys may cut your trail short but they typically are way better prepared the next time you go.

So I like Micheal would rather have every one be totally prepared but I know that is not a reality. So I will be prepared to help others and if lemons are presented me well then lemonade it is for the whole group!

Most important thing here is we go wheeling, keep this sport alive and help educate the less educated about the finer points of four wheeling (one of which is in point of fact being prepared for the trails you will run)

Hopefully I will see all you Yahoos next year
 
blazinzuk said:
The really interesting thing here is everyone who is participating in this discussion is what Micheal put so succinctly, are plan A guys.


I think blazer bash was awesome as a a first time attendee. Any organized trail ride is going to have a couple guys who aren't well prepared and some that are the best prepared who have troubles. Thats part of wheeling and part of the reason I go. Those guys may cut your trail short but they typically are way better prepared the next time you go.

So I like Micheal would rather have every one be totally prepared but I know that is not a reality. So I will be prepared to help others and if lemons are presented me well then lemonade it is for the whole group!

Most important thing here is we go wheeling, keep this sport alive and help educate the less educated about the finer points of four wheeling (one of which is in point of fact being prepared for the trails you will run)

Hopefully I will see all you Yahoos next year
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Hey Yahoo, did you get those t/c's off the trailer yet?
 
Michael - Blazer Bash would survive without you.... But, I am sure many share my sentiment, It wouldn't be the same...... I completely agreee with pan A/B. Wheel with plan A, prepare for plan B :thumb:


Stephen - Thanks sooo much for your well spoken input :waytogo: You said many of the things I wanted to, and said it way better than I would have... :bow:
 
mtnman said:
Michael - Blazer Bash would survive without you.... But, I am sure many share my sentiment, It wouldn't be the same...... I completely agreee with pan A/B. Wheel with plan A, prepare for plan B :thumb:


Stephen - Thanks sooo much for your well spoken input :waytogo: You said many of the things I wanted to, and said it way better than I would have... :bow:
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I'm sure you (Michael) not ever being at BB is a non an issue, but I will comment that I look forward to wheelin with you at BB every year. It's a bonus when I get to wheel with you and Claudia in AZ.:thumb:
 
jms said:
What I'm trying to get at is that the part of "...stuff will break at some point and if it does, we'll try our best to fix it..." is plan B.

I firmly believe that "...we'll try our best to have the truck prepared as much possible, and not try to break it deliberately..." must be plan A.:waytogo:

If there's something that might help in making plan A successful, I think it ought to be pursued - be it the checklist, honor system, an inspection, or spending the Blazer Bash Friday in the ORD Moab Driving School....:D

P.S. In case it wasn't apparent: Stephen's reference to 'Salbaum' in the post above - that's me. And no, I'm not arguing for anyone to be afraid of the first rock they encounter out there...
Click to expand...


Plan A--- prepare for the worst, and hope for the best.
Plan B---cover your ass.
 
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