Bent my Tie Rod (and other things) pics to follow.

[NV_K5]

Four of us went through what's called El Dorado Canyon on Sunday and I recovered my buddy's K5 from the top of a bolder, bent my e-brake braket so my brakes locked up, bent my front bumper, bent my back bumper, and most problematic bent my tie rod.

Rather than replace the tie rod I'm considering a high steer kit install.

One question (dumb question maybe) but what is the difference between a high steer and crossover steering on a Gen I. Did the steering change for Gen II's?

Why can't I just machine the passanger nuckle, install a high steer kit and keep the steering box, pitman and steering arm that are on it?

Why are some high steer arms angled and some not?

Anyone research or install this and know what I'm talking about?

 

[mr_blasto]

I will be the first to admit that I don't know a whole lot about this cause I haven't put mine in yet. I have the parts sitting around for a crossover steering setup, I just haven't put the new axles and steering in yet.

http://www.offroaddesign.com/catalog/Dana60crossover.htm has some good info. Crossover steering changes the geometry of the steering so the draglink runs from side to side instead of front to back (straight plagiarism from the website). Hi-steer also relocates your tie-rod to be above your leaf springs so it is more out of the way. (Now that I re-read your post, it might possibly be asking what the differences are not between these systems but between these systems on a gen I and post '73. There is a small bit of info on the ORD site near the bottom about the gen I setups).

I know this doesn't quite address all your questions, but it's all I got. Stephen at ORD has always been pretty helpful in answering questions, if you want to go that route.

 

[MNorby]

steering is same. 44 or 60 front?

 

[Jason4x4]

Rather than replace the tie rod I'm considering a high steer kit install.

Why can't I just machine the passanger nuckle, install a high steer kit and keep the steering box, pitman and steering arm that are on it?

Why are some high steer arms angled and some not?

some are angled to properly fix the angle of the drag link since the top of the knuckle is angled.

If you kept the push pull factory steering you wouldn't have anywhere to hook up a high steer tie rod on the drivers side. the pass knuckle will need to be drilled and tapped, and you will also need a driverside after market knuckle to accept the tie rod.

high steer/crossover, don't mind how close they are.

 

[MNorby]

one thing is I think the frame might have a bit less angle where the box bolts on. Had same exact suspension setup in my 86 as my 71 and the pitman arm was hitting the spring under flex in the 71. That was with the ford pitman arm that ORD sells in the crossover kit. I am now using a modified wagoneer pitman arm from WFO. Call them and they will get you set up well and make you a repeat customer

 

[AJs72K5]

If you kept the push pull factory steering you wouldn't have anywhere to hook up a high steer tie rod on the drivers side. the pass knuckle will need to be drilled and tapped, and you will also need a driverside after market knuckle to accept the tie rod.

For high steer on a D44 with flat top knuckles, I thought you had to mill, drill, and tap the passenger knuckle for the crossover arm and drag link connection. Then mill the driver's side knuckle and bolt the high steer arm into where the steering arm is on a D44, giving you the tie rod connection. Right??

 

[Jason4x4]

you don't need to mill the drivers side, it is already milled, it bolts on to where the factory arm goes.

 

[70jimmy]

Passenger side flattop knuckle is drilled for a steering arm like the driver's side. Most arms have two holes plus 3 for connection to the knuckle. The two holes are one for crossover steering arm and the other for tie rod that ties the two knuckles to each other.

NV K5 if you are interested I have steering arms from WFO that I replaced and would be willing to part with for some $$$. They were on my rig for a short time and I went with some taller ones.

Also if you need pics I can post some of my high steer crossover setup.

Most people swap steering boxes from 4 wheel to 2 wheel boxes because the pitman arm needs to be rotated 90 degrees so that it points to back of vehicle instead of toward driver's side.

Depending on tire size and how you use your rig it might be a good time to consider hydro assist also.

 

[NV_K5]

I guess I should have mentioned that it's a D44.

I can theoretically just get some 1.75 DOM and some threaded adapters to weld in and simply replace the Tie Rod. I went to a junk yard yesterday and walked through all his 4x4's and it appears this tie rod came off a D60. So Im really in a bind because all junk yards treat anything D60 as if it's solid gold.

 

[MNorby]

Build your own. I have about $100 into mine with inserts, TREs, and DOM from WFO and its uber stought. Makes my ORD draglink look small. I have nailed it many times and my friend say it deflects in them backs out straight again every time.... unlike my diff cover that had the ring gear pressed into it.

 

[70jimmy]

Yep I buy some good thick tubing and inserts and take it to a friends shop and they reem out the center a little put the inserts in and weld it. I use heims but I know some don't like them. Works for me so far.

 

[NV_K5]

I ordered a complete 1.25 DOM w/tie rod ends from Trevor at WFO. Should be here tomorrow he says. 1.25"x.219wall DOM tierod is $85. The tierod ends are $29.99 each." With shipping it's like 165.00.

I was going to go with the larger diameter but I think it will hit my diff cover.

Thanks for the offer on the high steer arms but I can't swing it right now.

 

[NV_K5]

Installed and ready to go. Once I get done doing the other stuff that may or may not need to be done...

 

[MNorby]

looks good, now go hit it on something

 

[NV_K5]

Bent the damn thing again on the same trail. Pics to follow.

 

[MNorby]

Bent the damn thing again on the same trail. Pics to follow.

You took me too serious....
That sucks though. Get some DOM that has an ID that same or a touch larger than the OD of your Tir ron now and sleeve it and plug weld it in a few spots.

 

[Greg72]

It might be time to think about High Steer..... especially if you already have crossover steering.

Here's a shot that shows the conventional tie rod location AND the location of the highsteer tierod

Here's the extra clearance available....roughly 8 extra inches.

Your front diff cover is certainly beefy enough to take direct hits from the rocks, so there's no need to use the tierod to protect it.

I'm not sure what you're spending for replacement DOM tierods, but those don't come cheap either. At some point, you'll get tired of throwing that money away.... as I mentioned, if you already had crossover steering, the additional costs to convert it the rest of the way to high steer aren't too expensive.

 

[NV_K5]

I appreciate the input, the usual conundrum applies - Do I put money into my same old D44 and have the passenger knuckle milled? Or do I go to a D60 and start again? With more money the answer is obvious, but in my current situation its not really feasable. I only bent it a little, so I'm running it as is through the Rubicon next month, after that I'll start giving some serious thought to the options.

 

[Greg72]

I hear ya...

If that's the case...focus on getting a larger diameter tierod next time around. One of the interesting factoids about metal strength (in tubing) is that the additional diameter has a surprisingly large effect on it's strength...wall thickness is important, but you'd be surprised how much stronger a tube will be if you make it even just 1/8" larger diameter.

You can play with ExcelCAD in the Materials Tab to get a feel for it. Pick a link in the suspension and then change the material diameter slightly (keep the wall thickness constant)....take a look at bending strengths, that's what would be most important in a tierod application. The numbers can climb pretty quickly as you increase the diameter. Perhaps you can add enough "margin" to avoid bent tierods as frequently.

 

[4X4HIGH]

I bought my tie rod from WFO as well. I however bought a 1.5" OD x .500" wall.