big_truxx
1/2 ton status
maybe it will be better to go to ethanol or whatever it is you can make yerself on the farm from growing something 
CK5
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Bio Diesel as seen on TRUCKS
- Thread starter Z3PR
- Start date
4by4bygod
1/2 ton status
big_truxx said:maybe it will be better to go to ethanol or whatever it is you can make yerself on the farm from growing something
Well, ethanol has the same type of energy penalty as biodiesel that makes it costly to use. Also, alcohol based fuels have a strong affinity for moisture, so you'll have problems with corrosion, seal porosity, and also lubricity problems.
getting back to biodiesel, the other variable is what happens if the soybean crop develops "rust", thereby ruining the crop.. that should drive up prices too.
Don't mean to be a wet blanket here.. i know everyone wants to " do something", and that's admirable. I just don't like solutions that ultimately hurt the guy who owns the truck.
Tom
Pookster
1/2 ton status
gah, I just lost this huge post.
Anyways, biodiesel is a solution for some, but not all. Oil avliabilty is the true issue. There is not enough oil to satisfy every single driver. Even if we made it the only crop in the U.S... its still not enough oil production. There's a chart of oil per acre of bio crop. The highest is canola and rapeseed (not soybean). There's even talk about extracting the oil from algae, which would provide a much larger growing area.
for us, the 6.2, 6.5, the old 6.9, 7.3 navistars, as well as several other engines all use waste vegetable oil on its own without any more trouble than biodiesel. Plus, you are getting maximum energy use as you are also using the glycerin within the oil as fuel.
Anyways, biodiesel is a solution for some, but not all. Oil avliabilty is the true issue. There is not enough oil to satisfy every single driver. Even if we made it the only crop in the U.S... its still not enough oil production. There's a chart of oil per acre of bio crop. The highest is canola and rapeseed (not soybean). There's even talk about extracting the oil from algae, which would provide a much larger growing area.
for us, the 6.2, 6.5, the old 6.9, 7.3 navistars, as well as several other engines all use waste vegetable oil on its own without any more trouble than biodiesel. Plus, you are getting maximum energy use as you are also using the glycerin within the oil as fuel.
txfiremank5
1/2 ton status
BozoWise said:
LOL ... my fire station generates enough old cooking oil to keep at least on person going on bio.
It's all stock piled out on the back porch since they told us to stop pouring it out in the gravel outside the backdoor. 
BozoWise
1/2 ton status
Look at you TX polluting our environment with all that oil, you guys should know better. By the way where is your station? If you are cooking up that much fried food maybe I need to be a fireman 
Anything fried has to be good.
Anything fried has to be good.
surpip
1 ton status
i was dissapointed by that show, ya it had some good info, but he said" i am going to sow you the power pontital the bio has over reg. diesel."
I wish he would have done a dyno test on thet truck with reg. diesel, and than a pull on bio.
i would be interested to see the resuls on that.
I wish he would have done a dyno test on thet truck with reg. diesel, and than a pull on bio.
i would be interested to see the resuls on that.
77crewcab
1/2 ton status
Just think: thats in the city, now imagine what happens out in the country on a farm Our farm has a trash fire pit, fuel tanks, our own junk yard, and probably still have a few 55 gal drums of DDT and some R12 freon in the barn. Oh and the oil wells lets not forget those (5 pump jacks)
Our farm has a trash fire pit, fuel tanks, our own junk yard, and probably still have a few 55 gal drums of DDT and some R12 freon in the barn. Oh and the oil wells lets not forget those (5 pump jacks)
jhellwig
1/2 ton status
Another problem I forsee with bio desil is that the govenment isn't getting its cut of taxes. I think that they will step in and eventualy shut down all these places with the do it yourself setups.
my prediction..
I was waiting for someone to mention the tax angle!...you dont think the U.S. government will let us make fuel on our own without needing permits,paying taxes,and all the other hoopla do you?...just like a still needs a permit,and to be inspected by federal agents,even if you make only small quantities.. I'm also sure local codes wont encourage people to have 55 gallons or more of flammable liquid stored in their basements or garages either.-In my town,5 gallons of gas is the maximum amount allowed to be stored in residetial areas..and it must be stored in an outbuilding or outside..
The bottom line is we wont be able to do much of anything to make our vehicles run on alternatives without them stepping in..not only that,any "homemade" fuels are likely to cause engine damage eventually--I've seen pistons from a diesel run on waste fryolator oil..it looked like black tar covering the rings--and you can't even chisel it off!..CANT be good for it!..
There is a CNG station about 3 miles from me --(CNG== Compressed Natural Gas)..the state of Massachussetts fuels about 50% of their trucks and cars in the state fleet with natural gas now..they are scrambling to step up the conversion of the rest of the fleet,before gas prices get much worse..I dont think natural gas is the answer either--nor is propane--ALL are derived from petroleum,so they ALL might be in short supply soon..but for now its a bit cheaper,and every penny counts I guess..
I think methane has potential--they have 3 large cattapiller diesels running generators at a nearby landfill 24/7,off the methane fumes generated by the rotting trash in the landfill..the local power company BUYS the power they produce!--last year the landfill made over 300,000 dollars worth of power!--now they are adding another diesel--the landfill still produces more methane than the existing engines can consume,and a "flare" pipe burns off the excess methane so it wont cause an odor problem...with all the cows,pigs,and other farms making tons of manure daily,supply should not be too much of a problem!..just think!--fart in your gas tank,and you can go for a drive!..people will be eating more beans than ever!..
I was waiting for someone to mention the tax angle!...you dont think the U.S. government will let us make fuel on our own without needing permits,paying taxes,and all the other hoopla do you?...just like a still needs a permit,and to be inspected by federal agents,even if you make only small quantities.. I'm also sure local codes wont encourage people to have 55 gallons or more of flammable liquid stored in their basements or garages either.-In my town,5 gallons of gas is the maximum amount allowed to be stored in residetial areas..and it must be stored in an outbuilding or outside..
The bottom line is we wont be able to do much of anything to make our vehicles run on alternatives without them stepping in..not only that,any "homemade" fuels are likely to cause engine damage eventually--I've seen pistons from a diesel run on waste fryolator oil..it looked like black tar covering the rings--and you can't even chisel it off!..CANT be good for it!..
There is a CNG station about 3 miles from me --(CNG== Compressed Natural Gas)..the state of Massachussetts fuels about 50% of their trucks and cars in the state fleet with natural gas now..they are scrambling to step up the conversion of the rest of the fleet,before gas prices get much worse..I dont think natural gas is the answer either--nor is propane--ALL are derived from petroleum,so they ALL might be in short supply soon..but for now its a bit cheaper,and every penny counts I guess..
I think methane has potential--they have 3 large cattapiller diesels running generators at a nearby landfill 24/7,off the methane fumes generated by the rotting trash in the landfill..the local power company BUYS the power they produce!--last year the landfill made over 300,000 dollars worth of power!--now they are adding another diesel--the landfill still produces more methane than the existing engines can consume,and a "flare" pipe burns off the excess methane so it wont cause an odor problem...with all the cows,pigs,and other farms making tons of manure daily,supply should not be too much of a problem!..just think!--fart in your gas tank,and you can go for a drive!..people will be eating more beans than ever!..
Roz
1/2 ton status
well, we have been following this for a few years, its not new. in japan they have been doing this for bout 10 yrs. they get a bunch of people in the same area buy it and take turns getting oil and tending to it.
funny hting is bout 5 yrs ago this was catching on - california passed a law that u cant transport used cooking oil. hhmmm who u thing is getting kick backs for that one?
ive seen it, and it smells delish.
funny hting is bout 5 yrs ago this was catching on - california passed a law that u cant transport used cooking oil. hhmmm who u thing is getting kick backs for that one?
ive seen it, and it smells delish.
txfiremank5
1/2 ton status
I know I know... that's why we had to stop..BozoWise said:Look at you TX polluting our environment with all that oil, you guys should know better. By the way where is your station? If you are cooking up that much fried food maybe I need to be a fireman
But yeah, we cook a lot of fried food. We cook a lot period. Just think, it's manned 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year.... 3 meals a day.. and there are 10 guys on duty (2 ambulance, 4 engine, 4 truck) and most want a "home cooked" meal while they are there vs running out and getting a burger. We buy in bulk.. as in beans that come in a large "feedbag" ..along with rice etc. I can say we generate a bit of old cooking oil.
Firemen don't really care to cook... but I have noticed that we like to eat...earl87gta
1/2 ton status
For you guys talking about taxes I read this on one of the Bio diesel sites. You must submit IRS form ??? at the end of the year declaring the
quantity of fuel you made and how much you owe. but I couldnt find out what the form was. I have a few 55 gal plastic drums and I have been thinking of trying to get the used oil first and after I have a lot then I will start making my own. I dont see how I could go wrong me and the wife both drive diesel trucks and I have been thinking about a new diesel lawn mower. Did any one see the discovery channel show they had on this last year. they said the reason it is not used more is cost tha avrage for bio diesel at the time of the show was 7 dollers a gal.
quantity of fuel you made and how much you owe. but I couldnt find out what the form was. I have a few 55 gal plastic drums and I have been thinking of trying to get the used oil first and after I have a lot then I will start making my own. I dont see how I could go wrong me and the wife both drive diesel trucks and I have been thinking about a new diesel lawn mower. Did any one see the discovery channel show they had on this last year. they said the reason it is not used more is cost tha avrage for bio diesel at the time of the show was 7 dollers a gal.
bio diesel availability
I was working at Davis Monthan AFB in Tucson in 2002 and 2003. They converted the base trucks and buses to bio diesel. I'm not sure what the percentage of diesel to biodiesel was. That implies to me at least that commercial manufactures are out there and that retail distribution is possible. I don't think anyone will ever be able to cost effectively manufacture their own fuel, whether alcohol,biodiesel, or whatever, without some huge outside incentive. I remember the 80's in Virginia when everyone kept talking about restarting their (Uncle's !) stills and running the cars on ethanol. Making your own biodiesel is intriguing, but especially for people who drive a lot (I live in Montana, put 20,000 miles per year on each of about 3 vehicles and assorted other miles on 3 more) you'd just about have to be working full time making fuel to drive. My 2 cents. Dave
I was working at Davis Monthan AFB in Tucson in 2002 and 2003. They converted the base trucks and buses to bio diesel. I'm not sure what the percentage of diesel to biodiesel was. That implies to me at least that commercial manufactures are out there and that retail distribution is possible. I don't think anyone will ever be able to cost effectively manufacture their own fuel, whether alcohol,biodiesel, or whatever, without some huge outside incentive. I remember the 80's in Virginia when everyone kept talking about restarting their (Uncle's !) stills and running the cars on ethanol. Making your own biodiesel is intriguing, but especially for people who drive a lot (I live in Montana, put 20,000 miles per year on each of about 3 vehicles and assorted other miles on 3 more) you'd just about have to be working full time making fuel to drive. My 2 cents. Dave
87BrnRsd
1/2 ton status
diesel4me said:For 3000 dollars,I could buy enough diesel fuel to drive my truck 10 years or more.
I asked several fast food joints here if they would give me their used oil--all of them are required by law to keep records of how much oil they buy,and who takes it away(all have subcontractors taking it away,and they sell it to Bio-Diesel companies)..they have to prove how they disposed of it--even "Ma and Pa" type food places are not exempt--if they use oil,it must be accounted for...this may not be true everywhere,but it is in my area..and thats all I care about!..bottom line?--if you want free oil,you wont get it here!--a few places DO give it away,but technically its illegal to do so,and they have more guys wanting it than they have to dispose of..
This does not take into consideration the effects burning something the engine was not designed for will do to it!..it might clog injectors,harm the injection pump,etc.I can picture the sludge building up in the rings and crancase!--.Plus it can't be used in cold weather..I dont really see the big advantage to using waste vegatable oil..maybe in an 18 wheeler,that consumes much more than a pickup...I think its a waste of time to pursue it for the "average Joe"...too complicated and difficult..
...I'd go for Hemp Oil myself...
Im with you and against you here man. From what your saying....it isnt really plausible to get used grease in your area. But where im from.....fast food companies and the restuarant i work for (im not going to mention the name, but its a huge chain with sotres all over the country....i almost guarantee youve eaten prime rib from there...anyways...they will almosy pay to get that crap off of their hands. They have to pay a company to take the used grease from them. If I get it from them, it saves them money.)
On the second subject...diesel engines will run on almost anything. My brother worked as a mechanic for a mercedes place, and after working there he told me what diesels can safely run off of. its amazing. They can run off of not onlt diesel, but kerosene, home heating oil, automatic transmission fluid, grese, whatever... Keep in mind that if your running a vegetable oil biodiesel, you have to have a separate fuel tank and a heater for it so the grease doesnt solidify....but diesels commonly run off of 25to1 or even greater compression. With a true vegetable oil biodiesel, you start on diesel.....then switch to vegetable oil....the you have to cut it off on pure diesel. And everyone knows....injector cleaner isnt anything but a little kerosene mixed with a few ingredients. Diesel iteslf will clean out whatever is in your injectors. The diesel before and after the vege oil will clean out the injectors. Hell, if you own a mercedes diesel, and you go to get a new fuel filter from the dealer....they fill the filter with tranny fluid. You would think it would smoke like hell, but it actually prodeces less noticeable smoke than when running off of good old diesel #2.
In my honest opinion....mercedes diesels are far superior to any other diesel engine...in terms of longevity. It is not uncommon at all to see a benz-diesel go for 500,000-750,000 miles. Im talkig about old school diesels here. Pre 90's era. I know my 300td has 260,000 miles on it and still runs like it did from day one.
On the other hand...it would take a lot of driving to secure that 3995 cost. that is what made me not want to buy it. If they did make hemp oil for diesels....I would buy it in a heartbet. Hell, I might even try to smoke it...
Fubeca
1/2 ton status
Screw Biodiesel
If I get another diesel - I'm running straight vegetable oil. Check out www.greasel.com
All you have to do if find the oil - filter it and you're good to go.
If I get another diesel - I'm running straight vegetable oil. Check out www.greasel.com
All you have to do if find the oil - filter it and you're good to go.
Fubeca said:If I get another diesel - I'm running straight vegetable oil. Check out www.greasel.com
All you have to do if find the oil - filter it and you're good to go.
yeah I already have a source for oil.. just no diesel automobile!!!!
