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Blinking brake light and spongy pedal

B

Broncoholics.com

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90' V2500 burb. TBI350/400.

Not sure they are related. Just realized after owning this burb for a couple months that the flashing brake light is giving me a code: 9 quick and 1 solid. After searching, I am coming up with this:

Code 9: open or grounded speed signal circuit

Got that code off this thread:
http://coloradok5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74676&highlight=Brake+light+codes

Anyone know how to fix this, or where to even start?

Also, within the last couple weeks I have noticed a pretty spongey feel in the braking system. The pedal will fade at stop lights from time to time, but its becoming more frequent, so I am guessing that either 1) they are related or 2) that the master cylinder needs replacing.

Just curious if anyone has had a similar issue. I never had an issue with the braking up until last week, which is why I don't think they are related, but would still like to fix both. Any ideas?
 
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Okay, this is very good reading for anyone having brake issues:
http://www.babcox.com/editorial/tr/tr89850.htm

So, after reading that I realized I had a false code, so after pulling the Stop/haz fuse for a few seconds, my blinking brake light is now out. No change in the pedal feel though, so it looks as if I will be replacing the MC tomorrow.

Any tips on bench bleeding the new unit?
 
just follow the instructions on how to bench bleed and it make sure you dont max it out, you could hurt the seals before you even get it on the truck
should be a relatively pain free process... until you have to bleed the brakes by yourself.... that can be tricky
 
that sounds like a MC issue, more than an electronic issue. I've had that before; it was the MC- if you are at a stop light, try clicking the AC on and off. If the pedal feel changes, its the vac booster and the MC thats the issue.

At least that is my guesstimate.
 
Okay, new MC is bled and installed and the brakes feel good. I reset the brake light and now the light comes on at 35mph and stays on. No blinking, just a solid light.

So, I assume that it has to be an ABS issue. Anyone else have this issue?
 
Let me know when you figure it out... I've been working on that problem on my truck after a rear hard line developed a leak and I replaced it. All I know is that the rear is inadequately proportioned to the front.. the rear will lock up real fast.

Do you have the same problem?


Broncoholics.com said:
Okay, new MC is bled and installed and the brakes feel good. I reset the brake light and now the light comes on at 35mph and stays on. No blinking, just a solid light.

So, I assume that it has to be an ABS issue. Anyone else have this issue?
 
No, with the 35s, I haven't locked anything up. I think it may have to do with needing to reprogram the DRAC. But, you need a kit from a GM dealer to do it.

This is from the link I posted earlier:

"If non-stock tires are installed on a GM vehicle with a DRAC module, therefore, the DRAC module must either be replaced or recalibrated. On 1991 and earlier "C" and "K" pickups, the DRAC modules can be recalibrated for different tire sizes and axle ratios by changing the configuration of an 8 pin connector that plugs into the instrument panel circuit board connector. A DRAC recalibration kit from GM is necessary for this procedure. By referring to a speedometer calibration chart in the factory service manual, the correct pin positions can be determined for any tire size and gear ratio combination. The specified pins are then broken off the connector. This alters the DRAC circuits when it is replaced in the instrument cluster to recalibrate the vehicle speed signal.

The "S" and "T" Blazers and vans as well as '92 "C" and "K" pickup truck applications have a DRAC that is a sealed plug-in module referred to as a "Vehicle Speed Sensor Buffer." It is matched to the original gear ratio and tire size of the vehicle, and cannot be recalibrated. Any changes in tire size or axle gearing requires replacing the DRAC or buffer with one that's correctly calibrated for the tire size application."

My burb appears to have the same system as the trucks listed. I know that it has rear ABS or RWAL(rear wheel anti-lock) based on the ABS module next to the master cylinder. For now, I am going to leave it alone since the braking seems fine, and I don't think that the ABS is going to work correctly with the 35s anyway. But, I am going to take it to the dealer to have the codes run.
 
Do a search for DRAC on this board. I did a post on it that has links to do all the recalibration yourself. It's not hard, I find it funny that it's mentioned you need a kit. :)
 
dyeager535 said:
Do a search for DRAC on this board. I did a post on it that has links to do all the recalibration yourself. It's not hard, I find it funny that it's mentioned you need a kit. :)

Cool, thanks man! Just what I needed. And to make it easier for some people, here is your post:

dyeager535 said:
Figured after all the research I've been doing on this, I ought to put it down somewhere just as much as reference/reminder for myself, as for anyone else. I'm only focusing on our 1991 and older body style trucks, although this is applicable to quite a few other vehicles. A lot of this will probably be helpful for folks going with other non-TBI injection setups as well. VSS is typically a hassle to run, luckily there are quite a few options for us.

My starting point now is a 1987 1227165 305 manual trans ECM/TPI setup installed on my 355, 465/205 in a 1986 K5 body. I am converting the cable drive 205 in it now to a 1991 205 which doesn't use a cable.

Up to 1989 in the "old style" trucks that we have, Vehicle Speed was sent to the cruise control module and ECM (if present be it CCC or TBI) from a buffer (yellow or light green typically) box that has a ribbon cable with an "eye" on the end of it, that is screwed into the back of the speedometer. This is a 2 pulse optical unit. For every revolution of the speedometer cable, there are 2 pulses sent to the ECM. GM speedometer cables are calibrated to turn 1000 revolutions (or 1001 depending on who you ask) per mile. So the input the ECM or cruise module sees, is 2000 pulses per mile. (PPM)

When our trucks (1990-91) went to the VSS mounted in the transfercase in 4wd apps. (241 or 205) or transmission in 2wd apps., (which means some cars and S10's/Astro's are in the SAME situation as our 1990-91 2WD trucks) the situation changed dramatically, from 2 pulse per cable revolution, to 40 pulses per OUTPUT shaft revolution. The 1990-91 VSS is also a different output than the optical unit...AC sine-wave instead of DC square-wave. However, the purpose of the DRAC is to take that AC signal, and convert it to all the other outputs needed: Cruise, ECM, ABS, and speedometer, which is what the older VSS system output originally.

The beauty of DRAC in my opinion is that you can run the '90-91 digital speedometer, is a fairly easy swap into the 1980(?)-1989 trucks, eliminates the speedometer cable, and is quite easy to manipulate to account for changes in tire size and gear ratio changes.

If there is more info people want, I'll do my best to answer any of it, but so far, this is all I can think of. It's not like I determined all of this myself, so here are all the sources if you'd like to do the reading yourself. I understand this is a very niche topic, but thats ok. At least it can be referenced for the few times it may come up. If I've made any errors, please point them out.

DRAC info I have read that the chart for the jumpers there is wrong, but the calculator is correct. FYI.

DRAC calculator from above site

Tire circumference calculator for jumper calculations

Excellent DRAC article w/pinouts

http://diy-efi.org/gmecm/ DIY-ECM site. If you search the archives, there is very little that can't be answered. ECM pinouts to discussions on various aspects of ECM operation, all here.

Thirdgen.org
Lots of good info here. Search search search. You will be amazed at how relevant the car stuff is to the truck stuff. A few people sneak truck questions in, but non-Camaro comments/questions are generally frowned upon...just don't talk about application.

Thirdgen.org will easily get you into doing your own PROM burning, it would be nice to see more of that kind of stuff going on here, so people in similar situations could talk about it, and not be afraid of talking about application. I'm awaiting a package of PROM burning stuff right now as a matter of fact, can't wait to make some needed changes.

More Info: TBI Astros that use DRAC are good donors. :) First off, the connector on the tranny of at least 1989 Astro's is the SAME as the ones used in (at least) the 1991 1 ton 205 applications. I suspect all 40 tooth reluctor setups within reason use the same connector on the tranny/t-case. The TBI Astro DRAC is located in the dash, just to the right (as you sit in the drivers seat) of the instrument cluster. With the dash trim off, there is a cavity in the dash (heater vent maybe?) that you can look in, and see the white DRAC tucked up in. As you look in the cavity, it is on the left side, towards the driver. It's just clipped in place, you just pull the DRAC towards the front of the vehicle, and the clips will let go.

Wiring is very simple. Stock VSS on cable drive setup is 3 wires. 12V ignition, ground, and one wire to ECM, or without ECM, cruise control. The DRAC uses those three wires as well. As a matter of fact, the wire to the ECM is the same color on the DRAC as earlier (pre-'90) VSS setups, brown. The other two wires might be same color, no big deal, the pinout is as I posted. The other two VSS inputs are off of the t-case or tranny, same connector, and the wiring will match up with the DRAC wiring. The Astro ones I grabbed also use the RWAL pin, I just removed that wire. Cruise is on the seperate plug, no cruise, only one connector to use with the DRAC. :)
 
Hey Dorian,

Do you happen to know if a 1990 V2500 Suburban(4wd) has the 40 pulse VSS? Also, I'm having a hard time seeing the damn thing under the dash. Is it locted there or behind the glove box? (fat ass can't manuever enough to see it) :D :mad: ;)
 
Okay, I reprogrammed the DRAC. Speedo is improved, but the damn light still comes on at 35mph. :mad: Its not giving me any kid of code, just a solid light. Any other ideas?
 
Sorry, didn't have internet this weekend.

I know only a little about the RWAL system, but from my knowledge of the non-RWAL setup injection systems, that brake light should have nothing to do with the injection, hence the brake light which should make correction/diagnosis fairly easy. The 35MPH issue is interesting, that MUST be some kind of threshold to trigger something, (or something screwing up the system that may not be able to trigger a "real" code) but I'm not sure what would be so critical to RWAL over 35MPH.

I'm assuming if you pull the RWAL fuse the light doesn't trigger?

IIRC the RWAL system utilizes it's own control module, so there should certainly be some specific data for it in the service manual, unfortunately I don't have any of the manuals that are that new.
 
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