bodywork help. ryoken??

[gonefishin]

So I have been Trying to read ryoken's novel but it's over 650 pages lol. I am starting my bodywork on my c1500 and I have a couple questions. I am going to be using epoxy primer and kirker single stage urethane and probably going to clear coat all the outside.

First I am sanding down to bare metal and its probably going to take at least a week to get the cab sanded. What do I do to keep the bare metal from rusting? My uncle told me to spray it with phosphoric acid wash to keep it from rusting, but I thought it was like that por15 stuff. I don't want it to flake off.

Second how do you paint a whole cab at 1 time inside, outside, top and underside? Or do you split up the painting into sections? I am, going to have the cab stripped completely and on some kind of rollers to move it around.

 

[y5mgisi]

Im going to guess at what ryoken's answer might be. I think he would say, to keep the bare metal from rusting, either do it in sections and epoxy prime each section as you do it, or b) lay down some ryoken green which you should have seen plenty of in the body work thread. Its the zinc chromate in the rattle can.

As for how to paint the whole cab, again im guessing, he will tell you to brake into interior first, let dry, then tape off the interior to do the exterior. I could be wrong, but suspect im pretty close.

 

[Highpsi]

I have a quick comment to add about a tool I found very useful when I was painting the interior of my cab.

You NEED one of these -- Pistol grip d/a

Couple one of these babies with a soft pad and limitless choices for grit sandpaper & hook and loop discs and you are going to be so glad you did...

I doubt you'd need a SnapOn, but you can find something out there that will do the trick.. Note that a rotary sander is NOT the same thing. If you want to remove multiple layers of paint and buildup, rotary is for sure the way to go. This thing is for precision sanding with lots of angles and hard to reach spots.

My guess is that Ryoken has covered all this but I've only read bits and pieces of his guide too!

You are going about it the right way! I sanded the interior of my cab and did a color change job about 15 years ago and it is still holding up. That was with inadequate prep work and just rushing the job. If you're going to bare metal and then trying to coordinate a big paint job I'd try to do things in stages. You don't have to worry about your color matching unless you do some sort of complicated metal flake paint job or something.

 

[ryoken]

So I have been Trying to read ryoken's novel but it's over 650 pages lol. I am starting my bodywork on my c1500 and I have a couple questions. I am going to be using epoxy primer and kirker single stage urethane and probably going to clear coat all the outside.

First I am sanding down to bare metal and its probably going to take at least a week to get the cab sanded. What do I do to keep the bare metal from rusting? My uncle told me to spray it with phosphoric acid wash to keep it from rusting, but I thought it was like that por15 stuff. I don't want it to flake off.

Second how do you paint a whole cab at 1 time inside, outside, top and underside? Or do you split up the painting into sections? I am, going to have the cab stripped completely and on some kind of rollers to move it around.

keep in mind, epoxy primer does not sand well.. if it's perfect steel that doesn't need much bodywork, it's a good choice.. like a frame, bulldozer or bridge..

but if your going to be doing some bodywork and really want it t!t's perfect and sanded perfect smooth every where, you'll more than likely be putting urethane fill primer over that epoxy.. which is fine... just wanted you to be aware of the pitfalls of epoxy primer..

it's one of the reasons I use green zinc most of the time than go to a urethane fill primer.... this is my opinion, some body guys may disagree..

I am not a huge fan of phosphoric acid wash as a metal treatment.... it's ok as a long storage coating, as long as you are going to sand it all off prior to primer... some circumstances that's easy, some not, firewall nooks and cranny's, floors, undercarriage, etc, that can be difficult..

priming over it without removing it all is a dangerous choice imo, way too many cases of topcoat failure for me to risk that... it's thin like water, leaves a discolored, streaky look to the steel, just a film of a coating.. whereas POR15 is an actual thick, encapsulating primer...

myself, I just keep stuff raw.. if it's inside, any recurring rust should be very minimal.. and i'll generally just buzz over anything right prior to primer with a DA to ensure that it's good clean steel...

as to painting a whole cab... the underside is where that would become a bit difficult, tho doable.. you could do it and just end up with the lift points being unpainted.. but obviously you'd have to have that setup at just the right height.. have a 2 step ladder handy for shooting the roof... most guys will split that into interior, than exterior... pretty easy to tape off door and window openings..

oh.. word of warning... if your using real, catalyzed primers and paints, BUY REAL MASKING PAPER... newspaper has been known to let urethane bleed thru and cause nightmares...

 

[y5mgisi]

Ryoken, I have a follow up to make sure my head is in the right place. With regards to zinc/epixy/2k. Say your someone like myself. I live in the Northwest where rust and corrosion isn't a huge deal, but like must people my focus would be on adhesion. A guy like myself could probably get a truck all sanded down and ready to prime over the course of say a week after work, with plans to prime Saturday morning. In this case, would it be advisable to skip the zinc? And would there be any real benefit to using epoxy before the 2k? Or would the benefits only be there if the whole truck was going to bare metal? Or is that not really even so much a factor? Sorry for the convoluted question, but I think you see what I'm getting at. Thank you!

 

[ryoken]

if your not stripping to raw steel, than there really is NO reason to use an epoxy imo.. you would go straight to a urethane primer, or spot zinc (or epoxy) on raw spots than urethane the whole thing......

zinc is a minimal bump in the time frame usually.. unless you go 2 part zinc wash... most of the time I just do 2 quick light coats and 15 minutes later I'm going right over it with urethane... so there is no real advantage to skipping it as it's a nice etch for raw steel..

epoxys advantage is it sticks to raw steel pretty damn good and is an outstanding rust inhibitor/sealer.. but has lousy sanding/bodywork characteristics.. that's why guys that use it, usually douche the stripped car, do their bodywork on top of the epoxy, than uro seal/fill over the top of that.... I find that to be more time/labor consuming and expensive...

it should never be used in any way with zinc.. it's one or the other... urethane primer can be applied over both, and is pretty much necessary over zinc due to the thin nature of zinc wash/primers...

also keep in mind, the zinc everyone in here uses out of the rattle can is good, but not nearly as good as an actual 2 part zinc wash.. but that time frame becomes a bit more like epoxy in that it doesn't flash off nearly as quick as the cans and will need a bit more time before overcoating..

 

[y5mgisi]

When you say zinc wash, is this something that is actually a "wash"? Or does it actually more closely resemble a primer with regards to application/finish?

 

[ryoken]

it's a thin primer.... just a term really as it kind of "saturates" the panel..

 

[blazer74]

it's a thin primer.... just a term really as it kind of "saturates" the panel..

And of course don't breath that crap, its used on aircraft and I've seen too many older guys at places I've worked die of cancer from working with paint. But of course were more aware and smarter these days.

You could write a book, I'd buy it.

 

[ryoken]

You could write a book, I'd buy it.

I'm too lazy, but thanks.... and yeah, even when your trying to be safe, it can be challenging... I swear the styrene and MEK I play with in the marine biz have got to be 2 of the most toxic things I've ever played with...


as I've stated some of what I voice are my opinion, I don't want to come across saying others are wrong.. these are just approaches that I have found to work and things I believe in..

but... there's some minutia things about bodywork that I know, that you'd be hardpressed to hear/learn anywhere else without MUCH research.. thing's like different grit preps, tool and process techniques, etc.. down to stoopid minutia like proper and best ways to use/fold sandpaper, things to look for when wetsanding/buffing, yada...

a whole bunch of that is from bodywork school, resto and collision shop, etc, but a whole nother level of that came from my fiberglass/gelcoat work with boats... it adds a perspective that car guys, myself included, don't/didn't normally see.. and it can affect a TON of stuff...

 

[jekquistk5]

Subscribed for future body work. I did read all 65 pages of chiefs thread.

 

[ryoken]

actually for as extensive as that thread goes, it just touches on the subject in many ways..

as always, if anyone thinks I can help, you can always PM me.. or we can just start another BW tech thread here too for me and others to chime in on...

 

[gonefishin]

Thanks for the help. I think I am just going to devote 2 days to just sanding. Then shoot primer. That way i don't have to worry about rust or spraying stuff that can cause me problems later. Also I was planning on going with urethane primer for sanding. I think I will shoot the bottom and inside at the same time.

 

[MTBLAZER89]

somewhere around page 35-40 there is a compilation cliffnotes in the big thread

 

[ryoken]

Thanks for the help. I think I am just going to devote 2 days to just sanding. Then shoot primer. That way i don't have to worry about rust or spraying stuff that can cause me problems later. Also I was planning on going with urethane primer for sanding. I think I will shoot the bottom and inside at the same time.

sounds like a good plan.. it's always a good idea to leave your "exposed, visible, want like a sheet of glass" panels to all be done by themselves, roof, doors, etc..

if I can help, holla...