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bordom inspired drivetrain poll

Which drivetrain is the best all around setup.

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K5dreamer

1/2 ton status
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just cuz im bored at work, reading threads, and someone went and put an idea into my head with something they had done.

From a cost, PITA, and overall performance standpoint, which of the following transmission/transfer case setups would yall say is the best real world setup for a 1986 M1009 Blazer. That will eventually wind up with a turbocharged 6.2L diesel ( maybe 200hp and 350ftlbs), and 37x12.50R16.5 tires, and 1 ton axles. gearing of axles will depend on transmission choice. Id like to get lower off road gearing than i have with the TH400/NP208/3.08 gears i have now, but keep.. or better yet, improove my highway mileage and rpms. 1800rpm at 65 would be nice.

Id been looking at the manual valvebody 4L80 for a while now, but they are expensive as all get out, and after buying my TDI jetta and being reminded how much i love driving stick, i did a little digging here on the forum, and found out about the NV4500, again, more expensive than im looking at, and then found the NV3500, which i can find on ebay for $500 tested and with a warranty.

So without further adu....

1. Keep the stock setup - all that requires is a rebuild on the tranny which seems to need a new pump and probably a rebuild, and controlling my impulsive need to mod my vehicles.

2. 4L80-E swap with manual valvebody - cheaper than getting a controller, kinda like a manual, and with a switch the lockup feature can be kept. and i can keep my NP208 without needing to purchase a new T-Case.

3. NV3500 swap - Not as strong as the NV4500, but great gearing, cheaper than dirt, can keep my np208, same length as a 700R4 means i should be able to use my stock driveshafts, main PITA would be the conversion from automagic to manual.

4. NV4500/Lowmax 205/203 doubler - just save the money till i can afford to go all out and get the monster drivetrain that i want but dont need. :D
 
good lord.... crunched the numbers on option 4.

NV4500/lowmax 205-203 doubler/ and 4.11 gears = 135.58:1 crawl ratio (with a 5.61 first gear), or 153.22:1 crawl ratio (with 6.34:1 first gear).

the thing could climb tree's.

and still, with its .75:1 5th gear, 37in tires, and the 4.11 gears, it would only be turning 1820 rpm at 65 mph.

im doing about 2100 rpm now with the TH400/33in tires/3.08 gears.
 
an interesting read... or couple. from another forum, where a guy did a 700R4 to NV3500 swap, and seemed VERY pleased with the results.

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=261498

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=96011&highlight=nv3500

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97389&highlight=nv3500+700r4

Im kinda in the same boat as this "High Sierra 2500" chap. I never tow, and dont "hammer" on the truck ever, so i dont think id NEED the NV4500. And if the NV3500 is designed to bolt up to the NP208 (which i have read), and is designed to swap in the same place as a 700R4, seems like a pretty strait forward swap, get some civilian driveshafts, and all the stuff for the auto-manual swap. and be done with it.

Crawl ratio would more than double from what i have now. from a 19.86:1 (TH400/NP208/3.08) to a 42.85:1 (NV3500/NP208/4.11). and with 37in tires id be turning 1771 rpm at 65 mph.

I think the 4L80 idea may be dead.
 
With a NA 6.2 in your situation I'd say the NV3500 would be OK...

That being said I don't know why you would intentionally use a tranny that will be marginal at best in your truck, with the turbo you will kill it sooner than later.

If you need to save cash somewhere look into doing a straight up 203/205. The Lomax option sounds really cool, but comes with a substantial price and you won't ever need gearing that deep with the 6.2 and 37's. Even just with a SM 465 and 205 my K5 had awesome gearing (4.56's and 39.5s, 58.5:1 CR)) My highway rpm's were stupid though.

I eventually went NV4500/203/205 and called it done (100.78:1 CR). If you're looking to spend $500 on an NV3500, how much worse is it to spend $800-$1100 for the NV4500? Guess what...the 208 also bolts right up to the NV4500 (crawl ratio 60.17:1 with 4.11's..damn decent!) that leaves altering current driveshafts which shouldn't cost more than $100 each or so.

If the NV3500 had the strength I'd consider it, because you'd get closer and more useful ratios. However IMO it's not strong enough, so I'd rather deal with wider ratios and still have the OD for higway. The stick behind the 6.2 you will definitely love, it is more fun and gets more of the available power to the ground.

Rene
 
I'm with tRUSTy. I've seen guys break them in stock 90's half tons with 350's so I'm not impressed with NV3500's.
 
Well, another thing that makes me wary of the NV4500 swap is ive heard there is a whole helluva lot of work involved, and lots of custom work. I can do some fabrication, but dont know how to weld, and dont have a machine shop, so custom stuff gets very expensive for me. I also live in a rather "city" area, without alot of car shops, or machine shops, so what few places there are charge a premium. the NV3500 was an attractive option because from what i read, it was a pretty bolt in operation, that even used the stock driveshafts.

the turbo also isnt necessary, and is a substancial chunk of change, which is hard to justify if im trying to be "frugal". and honestly, the truck is plenty powerful for what i use it for. so i can easily drop the turbo from the equation which would eliminate that stress from the transmission.

Rene - youve obviously done the nv4500 swap, and with how much you contribute, im sure youve got a thread or two about the swap, ill do a search and see if i can find it.

AJMBLAZER - what exactly is the weak link? clutch? flywheel? aluminum case? internal gear failure?? they are rated at 300ftlbs power handling, and a GVWR of 7,200lbs. Please dont misunderstand, im not calling you out, or questioning you, im just curious and would like to understand. Perhaps if it is a single weak link there is an aftermarket fix.
 
I don't know much about the 3500, but swapping from auto to manual is a lot of work. Make sure your tranny choice really makes it worth it.
 
save your pennys get what you want or you will never be truly happy deep deep down you want be happy until you get what you want i know from experance so save get what you want or later in life you will see some one with what you want and you will be jellous of what they have and you dont you will kick your but if you dont wait just my 2cents btdt.
 
I believe in both of my friends' cases it was internals that failed. I know one lost a few gears and the other said something about a loud bang and crunch. I was in the Marines at the time so I wasn't there but neither were exactly impressed with the transmissions on their stockish half tons blowing up. They had purchased manual tranny equiped trucks specifically to avoid that.
 
so much conflicting data on the internet :mad:

On the one hand, ive got the guys here on ck5 that i trust, and another forum for jeeps that say guys blow the NV3500's, on the other hand ive got a link (http://www.gearztv.com/index.php?em2048=96290_-1__0_~0_-1_3_2007_0_0&content=projects&ek=96290) for project crazy horse, with a NV3550 behind a ford 349 stroker in a old bronco, and "the diesel place" where a guy put a 300k mile NV3500 in his 6.2L and loved it, no problems.

I totally get where everyone is coming from suggesting the NV4500, and i agree to a point, but if i were to go that option, id have to buy a NP205 tcase, most likely not a low max or doubler, so id actually drop from a 2.6:1 ratio to a 1.96 ratio. id still need custom driveshafts, and alot of fab work regarding cross members and exhaust. (http://www.4wheeloffroad.com/techar...eed_manual_transmission_swap/tech_photos.html)

The attraction of the NV3500 is that i can keep my NP208, and worst case need to find some civilian driveshafts to make it work.

AARRRRGGGG the stress of trying to choose between whats affordable and whats the right ting to do. :doah:
 
FINALLY a description of a failure!!!

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/archive/index.php/t-170117.html

"This tranny is decent if you dont abuse it. Towing is a relative term. A 3000 lb boat every weekend is no problem, a 8000lb flatbed will destroy the nv3500, take it from me, mine ate the input gear and cluster gear to bits. But i was towing 8000lb plus trailers and often speed shifted while playing on the road, I ABUSED THE HE!! OUT OF IT! Under normal driving this is agreat trans. First gear is fine for a trailer as long as it is not 8000lb, it took a lot of clutch slippage to get it going! Remember, it is a LOT stronger than the automatic alternative. I would say $6000 is a decent price if it is in nice shape. Not a bargain of the year, but not a ripoff."

So it could just be that guys were using the 1/2 ton trucks the way they thought they could. but the GVWR of the nv3500 is only 7200lbs, meaning it could only safely handle about 2000 lbs towing on top of the 5200lbs curb weight of a M1009. towing 8000lbs would be basically 4x the safe towing weight for that tranny. no wonder something gave. but again, an 8000lbs trailer wouldnt seem abnormal for a 1/2 ton truck. I dont tow, so thats not an issue.

and here .... http://www.s10v8.com/showthread.php?t=1073757620, a guy is claiming he runs a NV3500 behind his 420lbft 350..... question is did he dyno the engine or just run mental math on it.

I know yall are right, and the NV4500 is the best option, im just really attracted to the cheap and easy bolt in operation........

So heres an idea, if i were to do the NV3500 swap, and it broke. How easy would the swap to a NV4500 be? id already have covered the auto-manual conversion, all the pedals and such would be installed. i might have to change what, the slave cylinder, master cylinder, flywheel, clutch, clutch fork, and all the things id have had to change anyway for the TH400 to NV4500 swap?
 
of course.... theres always the other option, of keeping this a DD/Trail rig, giving up on the big tires, 1 tons and all that. keeping this basically a stock M1009 with the NV3500, 4in lift, and swapping in 3.73 gears into the 10 bolts, and keeping the 33in tires. CR of 38.99, and highway crusing at 65mph at 1802rpm.

then later down the road if ive got the cash, build the second rig to build with all the 1 ton stuff...........

even as i wrote that i realized i was just trying to justify TWO trucks as being cheaper than just building the one the right way..... im a sick sick man.
 
tRustyK5 said:
Guess what...the 208 also bolts right up to the NV4500 (crawl ratio 60.17:1 with 4.11's..damn decent!) that leaves altering current driveshafts which shouldn't cost more than $100 each or so.
Click to expand...

BLAST i missed that part when i read it last time. that changes quite alot, the NV4500 just became a whole lot more affordable. not needing to buy the NP205 will more than cover the cost of modding the driveshafts.... if i can find a local place to do it.

ok, so as it stands, im still leaning towards the NV3500 from an ease of installation standpoint. im actually discussing this with a guy on another forum who is currently running the setup in an offroad rig. and is actually replacing the NV4500 in his other truck with an NV3500 because he likes the gear spacing better. apparently as long as i get the late model versions of the trannies, all the clutch stuff transfers. So i can do the NV3500, if it breaks, ill bite the bullet and put the NV4500 in there. and all it will cost is the transmission, driveshaft mods, and the rest of the headache of hammering, cutting, and clearancing...... dosnt sound too bad really.
 
K5dreamer said:
BLAST i missed that part when i read it last time. that changes quite alot, the NV4500 just became a whole lot more affordable. not needing to buy the NP205 will more than cover the cost of modding the driveshafts.... if i can find a local place to do it.

ok, so as it stands, im still leaning towards the NV3500 from an ease of installation standpoint. im actually discussing this with a guy on another forum who is currently running the setup in an offroad rig. and is actually replacing the NV4500 in his other truck with an NV3500 because he likes the gear spacing better. apparently as long as i get the late model versions of the trannies, all the clutch stuff transfers. So i can do the NV3500, if it breaks, ill bite the bullet and put the NV4500 in there. and all it will cost is the transmission, driveshaft mods, and the rest of the headache of hammering, cutting, and clearancing...... dosnt sound too bad really.
Click to expand...
If you are going to do something might as well do it right the first time. I am still going over my truck replacing all the stupid stuff I did in high school and its quite the pain in the ass. The 4500 is the same length as the 3500 so you are going to have to mod the drive shafts either way. I am pretty sure it will fit in the stock tunnel without any trouble and there is a stock cross member that will work too. Swap in the 4500 with your 208 and have the piece of mind it isnt going to explode.

Probably already seen this but if not its pretty much exactly what your doing minus the low max. http://www.4wheeloffroad.com/techar...n_5_speed_manual_transmission_swap/index.html
 
NorCalKid said:
If you are going to do something might as well do it right the first time. I am still going over my truck replacing all the stupid stuff I did in high school and its quite the pain in the ass. The 4500 is the same length as the 3500 so you are going to have to mod the drive shafts either way. I am pretty sure it will fit in the stock tunnel without any trouble and there is a stock cross member that will work too. Swap in the 4500 with your 208 and have the piece of mind it isnt going to explode.

Probably already seen this but if not its pretty much exactly what your doing minus the low max. http://www.4wheeloffroad.com/techar...n_5_speed_manual_transmission_swap/index.html
Click to expand...

interesting... the two trannies are the same size??? so maybe its not the transmission but the TC that causes the modification of the driveshafts. So if i kept the 208 i could run the NV4500 and keep the stock driveshafts?? that would be fantastic. cuz what im looking at is if im gonna go ahead and have custom driveshafts made, i might as well do the whole deal, NV4500/doubler setup so its all done at once.

This just kinda sucks because i was hoping to do a relatively simple swap to a manual tranny, without creating a huge project. its just kinda snowballing. I may still just do the NV3500 as a place holder, until i can assemble all the parts i need to do it right. Do an entire 1 ton suspension and drivetrain all at once kinda thing. pick up an axle here, a trans there, a doubler there, a lowmax 205 there.... and still be driving stick, on a non turbo, 1/2 ton DD rig.

Im just SOOOOO over the crappy gearing and horrible shift points, and sh*ttastic highway cruising of the TH400. SOOOOO much comprimise, and lack luster all around performance. The guy im talking to did his NV3500 swap for less than $350.00 with a junkyard NV3500 and related components. dosnt seem too bad of an investment, even if the tranny breaks. and ill still be set up to do a bolt in swap with the NV4500, and will have spent wayyyyyy less than having the TH400 rebuilt.
 
K5dreamer said:
interesting... the two trannies are the same size??? so maybe its not the transmission but the TC that causes the modification of the driveshafts. So if i kept the 208 i could run the NV4500 and keep the stock driveshafts?? that would be fantastic. cuz what im looking at is if im gonna go ahead and have custom driveshafts made, i might as well do the whole deal, NV4500/doubler setup so its all done at once.

This just kinda sucks because i was hoping to do a relatively simple swap to a manual tranny, without creating a huge project. its just kinda snowballing. I may still just do the NV3500 as a place holder, until i can assemble all the parts i need to do it right. Do an entire 1 ton suspension and drivetrain all at once kinda thing. pick up an axle here, a trans there, a doubler there, a lowmax 205 there.... and still be driving stick, on a non turbo, 1/2 ton DD rig.

Im just SOOOOO over the crappy gearing and horrible shift points, and sh*ttastic highway cruising of the TH400. SOOOOO much comprimise, and lack luster all around performance. The guy im talking to did his NV3500 swap for less than $350.00 with a junkyard NV3500 and related components. dosnt seem too bad of an investment, even if the tranny breaks. and ill still be set up to do a bolt in swap with the NV4500, and will have spent wayyyyyy less than having the TH400 rebuilt.
Click to expand...
The 3500 and 4500 are the same length but they are both shorter then the auto so you will need new shafts either way. Throwing a doubler in there might make it closer to the length where you can use stock shafts not sure how close it would be though. You could cut down some stock shafts and save some there
 
well DAMN. i need to throw some stuff up for sale and put together a quick 1000 bucks.

did a quick search on craigslist. found a 1970 frame, with a skyjacker lift, 1 ton axles, and they are indeed DRW axles according to the post. Its exactly what im looking for in the axle department.

and also listed is an NV4500, with everything but the clutch master cylinder and master cylinder line, out of a 1 ton 98 chevy truck. it dosnt say if its a 4x4 or not.

both listings are for 600 or best offer...... might as well throw up the link for yall because i cant afford em right now. maybe someone in the area can grab em.

http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/pts/1126686389.html

http://baltimore.craigslist.org/pts/1129023575.html
 
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