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Brake question(s)

B

blzrdrvr

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Apr 28, 2005
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Las Cruces, NM
Hi guys!

I just completed the 14b FF swap...good times. The RE is a 1972, with drums. I have all new braking equipment in the rear, and the front are the OE calipers, as they fit perfectly the D44 FE. The RE have self-adjusters, we forgot to set them before we put the drums on, and there is no access port to manually adjust them. After driving in reverse and braking over 24 times, and bleeding all four lines multiple times, and bleeding at the master cylinder, the brakes are ok. Just okay. I'm pretty sure they were tighter before, but driving multiple vehicles and not driving my truck more, they seem lacking.

Any one else noticed a lack of braking power after the swap?

P.S.: the master cylinder is new within 6 years, and the vacuum boost line is connected and not leaking.

Thank you!
 
There will be an adjuster hole in either the backing plate or the brake drum itself. If there is no adjuster hole in the backing plate and you don't see one in the drum there will be a "knock out" in the drum that will need to be knocked out in order to adjust the brake shoes correctly. Self adjusters rarely work as intended and I would not trust that they worked even after 24 times of braking in reverse.
 
Allrighty, then. As there isn't a knockout on the back i will search for one in front.

MUCH appreciated.

Why don't they work as intended?
 
blzrdrvr said:
Why don't they work as intended?
Click to expand...

The star adjuster is supposed to automatically size that bottom rod to float the shoes just inside the drum.

My experience -- and judging from 4x4High's response, I'm not alone -- is that they don't automatically do this. I've antisneezed the threads and lubed the ends and diddled with them until the cows came home to no end.

So as they shoes wear, you might expect to have to manually adjust the star a bit, which can be a pain.

-- A
 
**** yeah! Thank you guys. I will take care of this tomorrow at The Old Man's house after work, as I have other business to attend to there anyway.

Morning traffic is gonna be quite cautious.

Thanks again, guys.
 
No sir. I am currently inebriated. when i am influenced by this condition i have found it most fortuitous to do nothing other than continue the current program, as involving myself in technical mechanics may cause unfortunate events upon my person, or, others.

Tomorrow is my day!

Carpe Manana!
 
Actually the adjusters will usually work just fine providing two criteria are met.

1: Never take the truck offroad. Desert driving might be OK, but once you go through a couple of mudholes, the mud fills the threads and hardens locking them down.
2: Always hit the brakes every time you back up. Automatic transmissions pretty much ruined the usefulness of the automatic adjusters.

On my old Torino, I had to adjust the rear brakes every so often even though the adjusters were clean and working.
Most of the time when I backed up, I would take my foot off the gas and just drop it in drive instead of hitting the brake.
The problem is, the automatic adjusters make very tiny adjustments each time. About the most they can adjust each time is two clicks.

It might take 30 clicks to make one revolution of the adjuster, and it they are out of adjustment, it might take 2 or 3 revolutions to adjust them.

Plus, if the shoes are out of adjustment enough, they will not make contact with the drums hard enough to adjust at all.

So, if you are going to use the truck off road at all, keep the spoon handy.

And, I'm sure you realize that if the adjusting hole is in the backing plate, you just stick the spoon in and move it in the right direction.
But, if its in the drum, you have to rotate the drum until the hole is lined up with the adjuster.
That would seem to be obvious, but I watched a friend try for 10 minutes to adjust some with the hole in the 9:00 position...........

Said he just could not find the star wheel.............
 
It took a bit of adjusting and work to get mine right after I did the swap. I must have bled the brakes 3 times, put in a JB7 master, and fussed with the adjusters (of course they were initially locked up solid from rust). Now the truck stops well and the pedal has maybe an inch of travel. Just something you have to deal with in these old trucks. I am reminded why I dislike drum brakes.
 
Hi guys!

Well, I do not have knockouts in the backplate. i do not have them in the hubs (hubs are not OEM, the OEM was so destroyed that i had to buy new ones). The Old Man and his buddy thought that I needed the Master Cylinder out of the donor vehicle...until I told him what you guys said. Then after i removed the wheel and searched for a knockout on the hub, he wanted me to spin the hub...i knew what he was chasing, the slight scraping sound of properly adjusted shoes. Silence ensued. We came up with a plan to cut out a section of the backplate to access the star, seeing as how it needs constant monitoring and adjustment.

I asked him about this weird noise i had, i thought it was the pilot bearing, he offered that it may be the throwout bearing, and how to check that. OK.

Hey-hey guess what i else i don't have? A t-case. Yep. I was coming home from The Old Man's house the sound ceased being intermittent under certain conditions and became constant...and got louder. And then a Big Badda-Boom! While coasting to a stop on the highway shoulder, i listened to the engine as the death rattle subsided, and engaged the tranny and pushed the gas...no problems, just no go. I think this has been the source of the noise for a long time. Believe me, i keep my sm465 and np208 topped up with fluid. Oh yeah-here is a great reason to suspension lift your Blazer 4"+: should your t-case or u-joint have a catastrophic failure on the highway, your driveshaft attached at the rear axle should not come into contact with the pavement. You should have a nice 2" racing clearance.

Thanks for your help, fellas. I learned a great deal. Here is a pic of the carnage for your efforts:

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa58/RyanfromNM/deadtcase.jpg

one of the ears on the slip yoke is completely busted.
 
Good carnage there. Time to hit the junkyard. Nice lookin truck otherwise. That happened to my buddy's dodge twice at the tail housing area. Bearing kept locking up and overheating the case. He traded it back in after the second time for a newer Toyota. I think I have him talked into a blazer next time he blows this one up. There's lots of 208s out there. I believe a np241 will fit too but if not Someone will correct me.
 
chulisohombre said:
Good carnage there. Time to hit the junkyard. Nice lookin truck otherwise.
Click to expand...

Thanks, man. I do hope it looks good, cuz the body has more cancer than John Hopkin's. I started another thread related to The Carnage.

The other dudes:
You may or may not agree with my plan of attack (and are too polite to say so) but my plan is better than having to bust the rim, the axle nuts, and spindle nuts and washers off just to adjust the shoes when needed. I will do the best job i can. Driving in reverse and braking for two hours is a waste of fuel...although maybe if i put the RE on jackstands it may mitigate?

Thank you for your advice, and education, I will pay it forward when I can.
 
I can't see any obvious rot in the pics on your site. Stance is good and seems to be built decent. Would Have been easier To go disk brakes than replace all the heavy drum stuff. You only need to drill a small 1/2 inch hole in the backing plate to get a screwdriver in there to adjust the brakes. If you can find a rubber plug to Put in much better to Keep mud and dirt out. That or you can take off the hub completely and slide it on and off to adjust the shoes until it touches. It will start to junk the inner hub seal though with too much on and off of the spindle.
 
Been a while...my 1990 Camry threw a rod. I am sad. Down to just one vehicle now, the truck. The brakes came back! I got a new t-case. Works well. After all this time, The Old Man and his buddy, Long Tall and Ugly, came up with a solution: "Panic Braking" they called it. The opposite of back up and braking, it's back up fast and stomp the brakes like you're about to hit something. 4-5 times of that and I'm stopping well.

Thanks again for your advice. When the time comes to do the shoes, i'm going to cut access holes in the backing plate for the adjusters.
 
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