Brakes Broke!

[OurPlowGuy]

A bit of background: 1991 K5 Only 1 owner before me and that was a fire Department in CA. As I would have expected, it seems to have been very well maintained and everything worked when I got it.

- The Calipers (front only) were smoking so I replaced them. I went to bleed it and (almost) as expected,
- A bleeder screw broke off even though I oiled, PB Blaster-ed(?), penetrating fluid-ed(?), heated, wrapped & tapped. Had I known they were $10 or so, I would have just cut the 2 bolt heads off to start with.
- 2 brake cylinders replaced
- Bleed all 4 wheels (in the right order) and had no brake pedal pressure at all.
- Replaced the master cylinder (bench bleed then installed)
- Re-bleed-ed (?) all 4 wheels again
- Still no pedal
- Found out about bleeding the valves under the master cylinder. Although it took a long time to even find that info, none of the sources made it clear EXACTLY how to do it for my truck. The closest diagram I found was on a 1989 and the design was different enough that it really didn't apply. I found the little pin that they said was supposed to be pushed in while bleeding the brakes so I
- Bleed the brakes again with the pin pushed in.
- Then kept the pedal down, cracked open, closed, let the pedal up on the 2 fittings where the master cylinder connects. I heard no hissing so I don't think there was any air there to bleed and only fluid came out as soon as they were cracked.
- There were 2 other fittings lower down below the master cylinder that I just couldn't break, (as in starting to loosen a bolt) to see if they would hiss. Because there is
- Still NO resistance when I step on the pedal and it's not a issue of it being a soft pedal, I don't really think will make much difference at this point.
- I have inspected under the truck too and didn't see any wet spots along the lines that would indicate a break, a split or anything broken off.

ANY IDEAS?

Thanks in advance!

 

[tRustyK5]

I had a similar problem on an '89 S Blazer with the ABS. I ended up with a very vague and soft pedal after going through what seemed like quarts of Dot 3 trying to get em bled. I slowly drove it to a shop nearby and had them pressure bled...

 

[diesel4me]

If he is trying to bleed the brakes alone,that might be the issue..

I had one friends Jeep drive us nuts--after replacing every brake part in it from the master cylinder to the rear wheel cylinders including pads and shoes,we could only get the pedal to stay firm after several pumps,no matter how much bleeding we did (we used up a gallon of fluid!)--had to give up,we limped it to a brake shop,where the guy removed the front calipers,shoved a 2x4 block of wood in between the pads,and held the bleeder straight up as his assistant pumped the pedal...ten minutes later it had perfect brakes..

Turned out the calipers were swapped left for right ,and whoever put them on "wrong" had bled them that way..we copied their mistake!..now I always look and make sure the bleeders are facing straight up...

I made a vacuum bleeder out of a mayonaise jar and some vinyl tubing--it makes bleeding brakes alone a cinch ,and it always works the first time,and its the best way to do it alone in my opinion..it uses engine vacuum to suck the fluid from the master cylinder out of each bleeder screw...

 

[rampage]

Or if you want a power bleeder instead of a vacuum bleeder, you can make one similar to this like I did.

http://www.arkansaspontiacs.org/techstories/bleeder story.htm

Or another version:
http://www.bmw-m.net/TechProc/bleeder.htm

In both of these descriptions they say to put a quart of fluid in the pump. Instead of doing that, what I did was just fill the master cylinder reservoir with fluid and pressurize the system. Then as I bled each corner I'd periodically check the reservoir and top off as needed. It took a little longer but that way I didn't contaminate the sprayer.

 

[Kain]

I have one similar to this one from harbor freight and it works

http://www.harborfreight.com/brake-bleeder-and-vacuum-pump-kit-69328.html

 

[OurPlowGuy]

Downside wa?

I had a similar problem on an '89 S Blazer with the ABS. I ended up with a very vague and soft pedal after going through what seemed like quarts of Dot 3 trying to get em bled. I slowly drove it to a shop nearby and had them pressure bled...

I've been hoping to NOT have to take the 'trip of shame' down to the nearest garage after coming so far!

 

[OurPlowGuy]

And away weeee go!

If he is trying to bleed the brakes alone,that might be the issue..

I had one friends Jeep drive us nuts--after replacing every brake part in it from the master cylinder to the rear wheel cylinders including pads and shoes,we could only get the pedal to stay firm after several pumps,no matter how much bleeding we did (we used up a gallon of fluid!)--had to give up,we limped it to a brake shop,where the guy removed the front calipers,shoved a 2x4 block of wood in between the pads,and held the bleeder straight up as his assistant pumped the pedal...ten minutes later it had perfect brakes..

Turned out the calipers were swapped left for right ,and whoever put them on "wrong" had bled them that way..we copied their mistake!..now I always look and make sure the bleeders are facing straight up...

I made a vacuum bleeder out of a mayonaise jar and some vinyl tubing--it makes bleeding brakes alone a cinch ,and it always works the first time,and its the best way to do it alone in my opinion..it uses engine vacuum to suck the fluid from the master cylinder out of each bleeder screw...

Jeez! I wrote a too long message expressing my gratitude for such fast and thorough replies but it didn't show up here.

I'm gonna' head out now and see if I can finally put this matter to bed before sundown. Otherwise... Well there IS no otherwise! LOL I'll let ya know what happens as soon as it does. I know that my bleeders are pointed down w/o even going out there. So I'll swap 'em & bleed 'em again. The only question I have before I start is, if it seems like the calipers bleed fine... No air came out, shouldn't there still be SOME pedal pressure? I don't care! It sounds like it could work and that's more than I had this morning! OFF I GO & THANK YOU AGAIN!!!
- Ed
PS
If it doesn't work, or even if it DOES work, I may start the libation portion of my weekend early!

PPS
I am going to try the 'Add Epsom Salts to the battery trick'. That seems like it will work too!

 

[diesel4me]

You can pump 5 gallons through a brake system ,and if the bleeders on the calipers are facing down,there will forever be a bubble of air trapped on the inside opposite the bleeder,and you'll get either no pedal, or it'll pump up after several pumps,then go right to the floor after you let off it and go to try the brakes again..the bleeders must be facing up,straight up is best,to get 100% of the air out of the system...

 

[OurPlowGuy]

Broke Brakes Fixed!

You can pump 5 gallons through a brake system ,and if the bleeders on the calipers are facing down,there will forever be a bubble of air trapped on the inside opposite the bleeder,and you'll get either no pedal, or it'll pump up after several pumps,then go right to the floor after you let off it and go to try the brakes again..the bleeders must be facing up,straight up is best,to get 100% of the air out of the system...

- OR -
You can happen upon a group with enough knowledge who are willing to come to the aid of someone whose back is up against the wall. I turned to you because I couldn't find the answer. As a group, the collective knowledge provided what could never be found in a book. Experience! That and the willingness to share that experience with a stranger in need. I can't thank you enough! There is NO WAY I would have figured this one out!

I too will continue to pass it along.
- To plow the driveway of an elderly or disabled person or
- the 12 year old kid who for whatever reason is charged with taking on the pile at the end of the family driveway from the biggest snowfall in years or
- The parent who just got home only to have to take on hard heavy work before starting dinner or
- The one caught unprepared for an early storm and is out there at 6 AM with a cafeteria tray because that's the closest thing they could find to a shovel to get them off to work!

Because I can and find joy in:
- The bewildered face of the elderly lady as I smile and wave and drive away as she comes out of the house with her purse
- The sheer delight in the face of the 12 year old who gets to go back inside where it's warm and tell the family 'I'm Done!' or
- The parent who is on the verge of tears because they no longer have to do what I get to do in a few minutes, by throwing some levers, what would have made their long work day even longer and last but not least..
- See that lunchroom tray turned back into it's 2nd most important role, that of a tiny but working kinda-tobogan!

THANKS AGAIN!

Now let's hope that little shimmy-rumble in the left front continues go away!

- Ed

 

[diesel4me]

Glad you got the brakes to work--but you didn't say just what it was you did that "fixed" them...

 

[tRustyK5]

Assuming calipers on wrong side, bleeders low instead of high...