Cheapest way to an LS swap

[Stephen]

Multi port EFI is a big part of the "LS" swap. (I still hate how everyone tied that term to any gen 3,4,5 engine but it's so universal and easy that I kind of have to use it) If you're going to add multiport efi to a smallblock you make a LS package look really good. Roller cams fall in this category too. If you're willing to run a carb or a throttle body only system and accept a flat tappet cam things open up for a SBC. Same thing with accepting V-belts on the accessories. And dealing with gaskets where LS stuff is far better than SBC. For most of us the SBC weight penalty doesn't really matter but if weight matters for you, LS swap pounds are probably some of the cheapest weight you can save. For the record, there is room to have all these "problems" and still have a good truck. Our '74 K20 has a carb'd V-belted flat tappet all iron probably leaking SBC and it works acceptably most of the time.

I'd be genuinely curious to see a parts list for a SBC vs. 6.0L with equal parts applied to both and both set up to run at a set power level or a couple power levels, like maybe 350-ish like a stock 6.0L and 450ish like a cammed 6.0L.

Used/previously broken in LS engines? They aren't always perfect but 100K mile "LS" still has more useful life than most of our rigs will ever use up.

There's nothing broken about the SBC platform but it's been passed up in just about any category you can use to keep score. Maybe not dollar wise in everyone's specific situation but probably in far more situations than people think. Shop it all around and write it all down, it'll be obvious what you should do.

 

[ktmoutfront]

This thread makes me want to get my LQ9 finished.



It will be a while still.

 

[centexk5]

I’ve got a 97 vortec block sitting in the shop that I was planning on building. I’ve got the serpentine pulleys and it’s a one piece rear main. The only benefit of the LS is tuning and ease of adding power. I’m not building a dragster so weight is minimal and aluminum heads and manifold takes care of that unless I was to get an aluminum blocked LS.

 

[BC98]

If the OP is willing to put in some research, I would recommend looking at finding a U-pull type junkyard around you and pull the engine yourself. A bunch of them offer discounts on some days. The easiest ways to keep the costs down are to do the majority of the work yourself and resist the urge to replace parts "while you're in there." I got motivated by watching some YouTube channels (The Driveway Engineer, Sloppy Mechanics, and LT1Swap.com) and decided to do just that. I pulled an LQ4 myself (in early December in MN, don't recommend that...) with the harness, a cruise control module, and accessories. I didn't pay attention when I pulled this motor and it had cast iron heads so I went back to the yard and picked up a set of 862 aluminum heads off a 5.3L (smaller combustion chambers should boost compression a little) and snagged some Trailblazer exhaust manifolds (supposed to tuck a little tighter). I did decide to swap in a new cam and I'm also getting the factory harness prepped myself with the help of Youtube. With the cam, a few gaskets that were trashed and a couple of sensors, I'm still in it for under a grand. I don't even have a vehicle to put it in yet so that's the next hurdle for me.

 

[centexk5]

I've already said I'm not doing the harness because electrical is my nemesis. You still gotta figure out the gauges and the parts for the fuel system along with the new motor mounts and adapters to either your stock transmission or if you are swapping in the newer transmission then you've gotta get the trans mount or adapt your own as well as driveshafts changed.

 

[K85 Octane]

I would be miles ahead if I hadn't been scared to do the LS swap on my Blazer.
After doing it on my '68 C10, it's the only thing going into the Blazer next.
I'm done with the 400sb and 700R4. They aren't bad after dumping GOOD money into strengthening the 700R4 and FAST EFI the 400sb.
But that's easily 6.2/6L80 4x4 money right there. This combo, with around 100k miles, can be had around $4,000-$5,000 here locally. Just easier to upgrade the engine and trans in one shot.
Since I already have fuel lines and a proper tank, that helps. I will be selling my AutoMeter gauges, not doing a conversion, and going with some kind of OBD2 dash. But I realize that doesn't work for most folks who are trying to keep their OEM bezel etc.
Like mentioned earlier, if you are thinking EFI for your SB, think LS. If you are going for that stock look under the hood, then you'll spend more money trying to get an LS to look that way.

Don't get me wrong, SBC are awesome. They sound better and look better under a hood.
I don't have warm feelings for them. Might be my age, I don't have any background with them. The 400 was the first SB engine I ever dealt with.

 

[BC98]

I've already said I'm not doing the harness because electrical is my nemesis.

Yeah, I am in the same boat as far as auto electrical. The LT1swap.com website and YouTube channel literally walk you through the steps to modify a harness. Otherwise, you can send a factory one into a number of places and have it reworked. Or buy a standalone swap harness (the most expensive option).

You still gotta figure out the gauges

The factory oil pressure and temp guages should be able to be adapted into the stock LS motor locations. I believe the '89 to '91 Blazer/Suburban guage clusters are electric and are pretty easily adapted. The NP241C from those vehicles should have a VSS to interface with the gauges for speedo (and the LS ECM). Dakota Digital dash cluster is the more expensive option.

the parts for the fuel system

Factory K5 TBI tank and swap to a higher pressure pump. Russell (and others) make adapters to swap to AN fittings for both the tank side and fuel rail.

along with the new motor mounts and adapters to either your stock transmission or if you are swapping in the newer transmission then you've gotta get the trans mount or adapt your own as well as driveshafts changed.

Dirty Dingo (and others) make motor mounts to adapt. If you're going with a 4.8/5.3L, a spacer for the crankshaft and oblonging the bolts should allow your stock trans to hook up. Otherwise, you can go with a trans from the donor vehicle and adapt shift linkage and move the cross member.

 

[vandelay industries]

I should clarify. It’s hard to beat an LS in terms of ease of power upgrades and drive ability. Cam and a tune and you’ve got nearly a 100hp bump that drives stock. Hard to get that on a carb’d SBC.

Somewhat agree.


2) i'd like to add that an LSX block can take 2000hp. What SBC block, stock or aftermarket, can do that?

i'm sticking with SBC and will probably stick with it for a while because it works well and is straightforward and relatively cheap. Fastest, easiest, cheapest way to get a car or truck running.

i would now like to officially withdraw from this thread. If you WANT to go LS AND you're willing to chase parts and odds and ends AND try to figure out the electronics (which can be a nightmare) AND THEN fuel systen, AND you've got the TIME and inclination to do it, then there's nothing wrong with it.

 

[beags86]

Somewhat agree.


2) i'd like to add that an LSX block can take 2000hp. What SBC block, stock or aftermarket, can do that?

i'm sticking with SBC and will probably stick with it for a while because it works well and is straightforward and relatively cheap. Fastest, easiest, cheapest way to get a car or truck running.

i would now like to officially withdraw from this thread. If you WANT to go LS AND you're willing to chase parts and odds and ends AND try to figure out the electronics (which can be a nightmare) AND THEN fuel systen, AND you've got the TIME and inclination to do it, then there's nothing wrong with it.

Dart sbc's can hold 2,000hp.

 

[76k5blazerr]

LS is the way to go, just did one in my 74 k20 for about 3500$. That is after I sold my old drivetrain and some parts off the LS donor to recoup $. See my build thread for more info on it and feel free to PM me with any questions. Far superior drivability than a carbed engine. Anyone can hop in my truck now and turn the key and go, no special instructions. The swap can be done with basic tools, mine required zero custom fab work, it was 100% bolt in. You can pay someone to rework a factory LS harness for you if you can't do it which is better than buying a new one. Other than that the only work you should have to farm out is new driveshafts. I would rate the difficulty of an LS swap in a square body a 6/10. If you are willing to research, try unfamiliar things and stick it through and work hard to learn and finish it up, it's not nearly as difficult as you would think.

 

[centexk5]

I'm not worried about the difficulty. That's easy. It's the overall cost of everything that has me questioning things.

 

[ktmoutfront]

The cheapest way is to find that truck that has been sitting for 2 years because the guy got frustrated and gave up. By it cheap.

 

[ZooMad75]

LS engines are great. But in the right applications. My 5.3 was fine until I added the camper. Between the weight and aero drag I had to whip it like a mule on the highway. Headwinds suck as did any mountain climb.

I could have geared it deeper. 4.56 or 4.88 at minimum with 35's. I've got 4.10's. just couldn't keep it in the sweet spot without getting out of od.

None of these trucks are lightweights. Add 1tons, bumpers, winches, gear and it's not hard to get over 6,000 pounds or more. Cams help but typically push the torque curve higher, while making more it still requires gears to keep the engine revved up where it's happy.

Like Bent said, going to a late efi roller cam setup like a L29 or 8.1. 8.1's are harder to find but still out there. I heard through a buddy, there's a 8.1 powered 3/4 ton burb for sale in northern co right now.

The L29's electronic controls are a step behind even the early LS so I'm not sure how much one could do with HP tuners. But upgrading the induction to an aftermarket efi system opens it up again. The 8.1 uses the same ecm as the early LS stuff so it's just as adept to tuning via hp or efi live. Less options for pure speed parts for the 8.1 vs the 454, though depending on your goals the 8.1 don't need much other than tuning.

So unless you plan on going all the way with an LS swap and wake it up with a cam and solid tuning, I'd go big block. Even more so if your ride is heavy or going to get heavier.

 

[beags86]

LS engines are great. But in the right applications. My 5.3 was fine until I added the camper. Between the weight and aero drag I had to whip it like a mule on the highway. Headwinds suck as did any mountain climb.

I could have geared it deeper. 4.56 or 4.88 at minimum with 35's. I've got 4.10's. just couldn't keep it in the sweet spot without getting out of od.

None of these trucks are lightweights. Add 1tons, bumpers, winches, gear and it's not hard to get over 6,000 pounds or more. Cams help but typically push the torque curve higher, while making more it still requires gears to keep the engine revved up where it's happy.

Like Bent said, going to a late efi roller cam setup like a L29 or 8.1. 8.1's are harder to find but still out there. I heard through a buddy, there's a 8.1 powered 3/4 ton burb for sale in northern co right now.

The L29's electronic controls are a step behind even the early LS so I'm not sure how much one could do with HP tuners. But upgrading the induction to an aftermarket efi system opens it up again. The 8.1 uses the same ecm as the early LS stuff so it's just as adept to tuning via hp or efi live. Less options for pure speed parts for the 8.1 vs the 454, though depending on your goals the 8.1 don't need much other than tuning.

So unless you plan on going all the way with an LS swap and wake it up with a cam and solid tuning, I'd go big block. Even more so if your ride is heavy or going to get heavier.

Where is this said, 8.1 burb??

 

[ZooMad75]

Where is this said, 8.1 burb??

I was told it was on Craigslist or FB marketplace, but that was Sunday when I was told. Might be gone now at that price.

 

[beags86]

I was told it was on Craigslist or FB marketplace, but that was Sunday when I was told. Might be gone now at that price.

Always a bridesmaids. Never a bride.

 

[ZooMad75]

One point I didn't make earlier. LS swaps aren't "cheap". You can do them cheaper, but they are not cheap.

My engine was free. Still put almost $2,000 into it to make it run.

 

[vandelay industries]

Dart sbc's can hold 2,000hp.

Ok, good to know.

NOW, i officially withdraw from this thread.

 

[6872xtc]

I will say that I like the idea of getting a L29 or 8.1. The power will be appreciated as others have said.

I will tell you that I believe the cheapest way to do an engine swap is to buy a complete vehicle and take the time to part it out. You have to be prepared to deal with the people when advertising it and the carcass when done. My recent experience is from my son buying an '03 Yukon with 236K on it. He drove it 100 miles to get home with it. It had multiple problems like auto-ride sensors bad, rear A/C stuck on, poor condition driver seat, almost nonexistent rear brake pads. The engine runs great but has an oil leak, maybe 2, has a new water pump and throttle body, the transmission works perfectly, good oil color.
He bought it for $800, kept the engine and transmission, and got $1680 back out of the rest. It took 3 months to get that, and we had the carcass around for 2 months of that. We pulled what we thought would be of interest just before hauling the body to scrap.
Yes, the engine needs some attention since it leaks, and we would want to open it up and check / replace some things since it is out. However I call it a free engine and transmission. So my rough estimate is that it could get installed in something for one to two thousand. I don't have a problem with the miles on a well maintained engine, I have been around several with over 250K on the odometer. Being able to hear it run in the vehicle is the best way to me.
And the kid just bought an '04 Escalade with 226K on it from the original owner for $2K. Drove it home from the same town as the Yukon.


I am not saying that everyone can nor wants to deal with parting a vehicle, but that seems to be the cheapest way to get an engine for a swap IMO.

 

[imiceman44]

I will say that I like the idea of getting a L29 or 8.1. The power will be appreciated as others have said.

I will tell you that I believe the cheapest way to do an engine swap is to buy a complete vehicle and take the time to part it out. You have to be prepared to deal with the people when advertising it and the carcass when done. My recent experience is from my son buying an '03 Yukon with 236K on it. He drove it 100 miles to get home with it. It had multiple problems like auto-ride sensors bad, rear A/C stuck on, poor condition driver seat, almost nonexistent rear brake pads. The engine runs great but has an oil leak, maybe 2, has a new water pump and throttle body, the transmission works perfectly, good oil color.
He bought it for $800, kept the engine and transmission, and got $1680 back out of the rest. It took 3 months to get that, and we had the carcass around for 2 months of that. We pulled what we thought would be of interest just before hauling the body to scrap.
Yes, the engine needs some attention since it leaks, and we would want to open it up and check / replace some things since it is out. However I call it a free engine and transmission. So my rough estimate is that it could get installed in something for one to two thousand. I don't have a problem with the miles on a well maintained engine, I have been around several with over 250K on the odometer. Being able to hear it run in the vehicle is the best way to me.
And the kid just bought an '04 Escalade with 226K on it from the original owner for $2K. Drove it home from the same town as the Yukon.


I am not saying that everyone can nor wants to deal with parting a vehicle, but that seems to be the cheapest way to get an engine for a swap IMO.

That's the only way I have done anything.
I always bought vehicles to part to pay for the parts I needed, it also financed my hobby.
Problem is at one point I had 35 vehicles...