Chebby Guru's and Parts Geniuses...

[cmcolfax]

Following is a collection of questions I have cut-n-pasted from several other places to try to give y'all a complete picture...

OK, before y'all say "search newbie"; I AM... on every Off Road / Jeep / Chebby forum I can find...

But I am also ASKING on all of them too!

My CJ-7 currently has an early 80's 305 / TH350 / NP205.

All came from the same donor (believed to be an early 80's Chevy pickup.)

I am planning a Auto-to-Manual swap.

PLEASE, this thread is not where I want to be lectured about how much better an Auto is or questioned about why I want to swap. Just accept the fact that it is what I want to do. I have my reasons.

I also have a good working SM465 (including bellhousing with mechanical clutch linkage and the NP205 adapter) as well as a line on a bellhousing with a hydraulic clutch linkage.

I recently drove a friend's CJ with a very similar setup (350 / SM465 / NP205) and now have some questions about the suitabilty of the tranny for my application.

I did not mind it, but it was somewhat akin to driving a dump truck! Not a problem for me as I have heavy truck experience, but the CJ needs to be driveable by my Fiance' (a very petite woman).

In short...

WHAT OTHER MANUAL TRANNYS WILL BOLT UP BEHIND THE 305 AND ADAPT TO THE 205?

OTHER 1980's GM 4-speeds? 1990's GM 4-speeds? 5-speeds?

Super low 1st gear ratio is not a huge factor nor is "indestructability" (I've got that in the 465 if I go that route). Just strong enough to hold up behind the 305 in a fiberglass bodied CJ running 33's and 4.10's.

I will begin junkyard hunting as soon as I compile a realistic list.

THANKS!!!!!

-Chuck

I thought about trying to make it more "driveable" with a different clutch but got to thinking that driving the 465 is VERY different than the manual's that she has driven (Mitsu Eclipse, Mustang GT, CJ7 w/ T5, XJ w/ AX15).

I also recently drove a friend's Early 90's 2WD 1/2-ton GMC with a 5-speed and got to thinking something like that will be best suited for her...

An NV4500 is just not in the budget. Any other suggestions? Looking for something I can score from a JY in good working condition.

Since "indestructability" is not an issue why not ditch the NP205 as well and look for a lighter duty tranny / t-case combo.

The CJ is going to be a light weekend wheeler and still see a fair amount of street miles.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

THANKS!

Ya'll know TONS more about Chebby's than I ever will!

-cmc-

 

[gauder]

Why not an NV3500/np241 then? Still have overdrive, hydraulic clutch and 2.72:1 low range for weekend fun.

 

[cmcolfax]

Why not an NV3500/np241 then? Still have overdrive, hydraulic clutch and 2.72:1 low range for weekend fun.

Where would that combo be found? 90's 1/2 tons?

Rough price point in working conditon from a JY?

Would that combo still bolt up to my Early 80's 305?

THANNKS!

(I told you that y'all knew more about Bowties than I ever will!)

-cmc-

 

[zero cool]

My CJ7 has an SM465 mated to an AMC 360 via an Advanced Adapters bellhousing. The ability to use the stock hydraulic clutch with their conversion bellhousing made life easy.

They have numerous adapters to mate many different engines and transmissions. http://www.advanceadapters.com/

Novak adapters http://www.novak-adapt.com/ also has a number of adapters to mate engines and transmissions. I like their adapter to hook up an AX-15 to a Chevy bellhousing. That's a good medium duty tranny that would hold up to the 305 fine. It's an overdrive so you can step up the axle gears to give you the good crawl ratio. And you can bolt up a Jeep Dana 300 t-case with just a spacer/clocking ring. The D300 would have the correct passenger side drop. You can find both the AX-15 and D300 on ebay for not much. And with the hydraulic clutch and good first gear ratio, the fiance wouldn't have too much trouble driving it.

 

[cmcolfax]

I have read the NOVAK and AA pages until my eyes bleed... SO MUCH GREAT INFO ON THEM!!!

The conversion bellhousing for the Jeep AX15 is interesting but I believe will become cost prohibitive quickly (even though I can score an AX15 and/or D300 for short money... hey, I am a Jeep guy... )

-cmc-

 

[zero cool]

I have read the NOVAK and AA pages until my eyes bleed... SO MUCH GREAT INFO ON THEM!!!

The conversion bellhousing for the Jeep AX15 is interesting but I believe will become cost prohibitive quickly (even though I can score an AX15 and/or D300 for short money... hey, I am a Jeep guy... )

-cmc-

I'm more of a Jeep guy for my buggy platform but I've been a Chevy guy since I learned how to drive in a 77 Caprice Estate wagon. And I'm starting to look for a do-it-all trail riding/daily driver/hunting rig and that lead me to the K5 so I'm going to be a Jeep and K5 guy as soon as I get the truck sold and get into a K5.

I know what you mean about the adapters being expensive. But when it comes to Chevy, there isn't much choice for medium duty equipment outside the S-10 realm. You may consider getting the transmission from a wrecked S-10 of some kind. But they use a driver drop t-case and that won't work in the CJ without mods. And those mods can add up.

I bet if you get a decent hydraulic clutch to work with that SM465, the fiance shouldn't have much trouble driving it. That is, assuming she's not too dainty.

 

[cmcolfax]

I'm more of a Jeep guy for my buggy platform but I've been a Chevy guy since I learned how to drive in a 77 Caprice Estate wagon. And I'm starting to look for a do-it-all trail riding/daily driver/hunting rig and that lead me to the K5 so I'm going to be a Jeep and K5 guy as soon as I get the truck sold and get into a K5.

I know what you mean about the adapters being expensive. But when it comes to Chevy, there isn't much choice for medium duty equipment outside the S-10 realm. You may consider getting the transmission from a wrecked S-10 of some kind. But they use a driver drop t-case and that won't work in the CJ without mods. And those mods can add up.

I bet if you get a decent hydraulic clutch to work with that SM465, the fiance shouldn't have much trouble driving it. That is, assuming she's not too dainty.

"Dainty" is a good word to describe someone who is 5'4" and weighs less than 110lbs soaking wet and clothed!

Total bolt awn is not a requirement. But I am not swapping axles just to make a T-case work, ya know?

I know I am cutting the tub no matter what I put in, but hey, it's fiberglass!

Keeping the engine & drivetrain "the same" (as in all GM) would be nice; if not; I would like to try keeping the tranny & xfr "the same" (as in a "combo" that was factory available be it GM or Jeep).

A few more bits of info I have found...

You won't find anything non-truck to mate to a 205 easily.

Find a NV 3500, tend to go for $800 in the JY, mostly used in S-10s and 1/2 tons, should have 6 bolt/23 spline output, which means it will mate to a D300.

the 3500 was used in GM 1/2 tons from 1988- 1998 and in some 3/4 tons from 1991-1998, now that i think about itm some of the early years might bolt to the 205.

So if I start lookin' I can look for a 1988-1998 GM 1/2 or 3/4 ton...

Can anyone add anything to this?

Can I assume the 3500 bellhousing will bolt to the 305 if it comes out of a GM?

What T-cases were used?

Are any PS drop?

THANKY!

-cmc-

 

[darenofears]

sm465 just takes a little gettilng used to because you have to move the stick more and low is unsynchronized

 

[cmcolfax]

sm465 just takes a little gettilng used to because you have to move the stick more and low is unsynchronized

Which is kinda why I am exploring other options...

As I said in the first post, it did not bother me and I would get the hang of it quickly because I have some heavy truck experience.

I am trying to make this rig reasonably easy for my fiance to drive as well..

So far, the consensus seems to be this:

I should most likely be looking for a 1988 or newer GM 1/2 Ton to find a NV3500 (5-speed) with a NP241 (PS drop)...

Should be easy enough as I assume they are plentiful in JY's.

-cmc-

 

[zero cool]

They should be plentiful enough. But with automatics outselling manuals by a very wide margin, they may not be as plentiful as you want in JYs. It may take some digging. But many of them share computerized inventories and can look around for you to find what you're looking for.

 

[cmcolfax]

They should be plentiful enough. But with automatics outselling manuals by a very wide margin, they may not be as plentiful as you want in JYs. It may take some digging. But many of them share computerized inventories and can look around for you to find what you're looking for.

I've got a couple good ones near me here in Central VA... some are pick-and-pull, others are more high tech and have computerized inventories and links to other "used auto parts facilities"

Some more bits of info...

GM NP241 pass. drop from a 1990 Fullsized Blazer. The pass. drop 241's were ONLY found from 89-91 and the 89's were mechanical speedo'

Can anyone confirm / verify this?

the NV3500 (MG5 code) from a 96 K-series pickup. The MG5 refers to the gear ratios and mine are a 4.01 first, along with nicely geared 2-4's, with a 0.73 fifth OD. It is a hydraulic clutch unit so the master cylinder needs to be worked in there somehow. It;s an aluminum case, weighs about 100 lbs and is plenty strong

The tranny price will all depend on condition. I could cost close to a grand for a nice rebuilt one or a couple hun for a rebuildable unit. You'll have to look around. I bought my NV3500 for $500 and it looks to be in great shape

The NP241 cost me about $350 for the 90 and $200 for the 89 I have.

I may keep this thread alive and use it as a sort of "clearinghouse" for information as I find it if that is OK with y'all.

-cmc-

 

[gauder]

NV3500's out of 1/2 tons were 32 spline.

 

[cmcolfax]

NV3500's out of 1/2 tons were 32 spline.

Another tidbit to add to the file.

Hopefully I will be able to find a matched set... and not have to worry about input shaft spline count...

-cmc-

 

[tRustyK5]

There were a few years where the default 5 speed was a Getrag not an NV3500. They're very similar tranny's as far as ease of shifting/driving and strength goes.

PS drop T-cases that'll bolt up to it are the NP208 (stuck using a slip yoke though) and the PS drop 241 found in 89-91 K5's and Suburbans.

As for bolting up to the 305, in a word yes. They came behind the 4.3 V-6, the 5.0 V-8 as well as the 5.7 V-8. The are a completely aluminum tranny and the bellhousing is an integral part of the tranny. Slave cylinder is on the passenger side though...which may cause driveline clearance problems depending on how tight things are under your Jeep.

Behind a 305 in a light Jeep it should last quite a long time...and it's a very car like tranny.

IIRC first gear is ~4:1 so the crawl ratio wouldn't suffer much. 465/205 with 4.10's would be 52.63:1, Getrag/241 with 4.10's would be 44.6:1.

Rene

 

[cmcolfax]

There were a few years where the default 5 speed was a Getrag not an NV3500. They're very similar tranny's as far as ease of shifting/driving and strength goes.

PS drop T-cases that'll bolt up to it are the NP208 (stuck using a slip yoke though) and the PS drop 241 found in 89-91 K5's and Suburbans.

As for bolting up to the 305, in a word yes. They came behind the 4.3 V-6, the 5.0 V-8 as well as the 5.7 V-8. The are a completely aluminum tranny and the bellhousing is an integral part of the tranny. Slave cylinder is on the passenger side though...which may cause driveline clearance problems depending on how tight things are under your Jeep.

Behind a 305 in a light Jeep it should last quite a long time...and it's a very car like tranny.

IIRC first gear is ~4:1 so the crawl ratio wouldn't suffer much. 465/205 with 4.10's would be 52.63:1, Getrag/241 with 4.10's would be 44.6:1.

Rene

I learned A LOT about Chebby's today! (I did not have to work so guess what I did all day?)

Does not make much difference to me if it is the Getrag or the New Venture (although I did think they were the same tranny ).

I will be looking for the PS drop NP241. I read that the 89's still had the mechanical speedometer hook up instead of the computer controlled VSS so that is one more variable since I have no other engine electronics on the vehicle.

Slave cylinder clearance SHOULDN'T be a problem. The CJ is currently sitting on 2" springs and a 2" BL supports the fiberglass tub. There is plenty of room around the TH350 that is in there now.

Light is not even the word... I figure 2500lbs tops! The title lists it as 2850lbs and that was from the factory with a steel body and hard top!

THANKS ALL... and I'll keep ya posted as the research / search progresses!

If anyone has more info, thoughts, ideas or suggestions, post 'em up!

-cmc-

 

[tRustyK5]

If you find a electronic speedo version of the NP241 you can get the super short SYE kit for it from JB conversions. There is a write up on the regular SYE kit on the home page somewhere. Should be compatible with the aftermarket speedo's...

Rene

 

[fireplug]

Wow, all those responses and not one said get rid of the girl? Hmmm. Well how about get the girl a $500 beater?

 

[Brocky]

Wow, all those responses and not one said get rid of the girl? Hmmm. Well how about get the girl a $500 beater?

That would be the way I look at things. My K5 is going standard so the woman can't drive it. Buy her a Tercel or something.

 

[cmcolfax]

That would be the way I look at things. My K5 is going standard so the woman can't drive it. Buy her a Tercel or something.

She likes manual tranny's.

She actually LIKED driving my old CJ (258/T5).

We sold my CJ and her 94 4.6L Mustang GT (5-sp) and got "responsible" and bought a Cherokee and an 04 Chebby Malibu.

The Cherokee is still my DD (with 4" lift and 32's) but we wanted another toy so we bought the current CJ as a "mostly done" project from a guy who lost interest.

Now just trying to make it in to what we BOTH want... I want to be able to wheel it, she wants to be able to run it on fire roads and whatnot and on the street.

You guys have all been VERY helpful... I appreciate that!

-cmc-

 

[cmcolfax]

:bumpity:

Just for more thoughts and opinions!

-cmc-