Clearing Shackle Bolt with Big Headers

[brandoneh]

I'm having trouble finding a solution to making these headers fit.

I purchased these headers after seeing them on a fellow members thread. AJ72's build. http://coloradok5.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2801090&postcount=247. I was hoping it would be all good on fitment just like it shows in his build.

So I picked them up for a hefty penny and have had a lot of issues. I had to trim my frame rail immensely to get the first two tubes to clear on both sides. Also, with the diy4x crossmember setup it seems every time I pull the motor, trim, put it back in, the motor is in a different place. Makes things difficult and have to trim a different place everytime. The frame rails are trimmed now for clearance, and will have it boxed it where the cuts were made to make up for the loss of strength. My issue now is I don't know what to do with the shackle bolt hitting the tube on the pass. side.

I tried the ratchet strap idea that I have read here. I was a little nervous with ratcheting the headers as they were bolted into my aluminum heads, not quite sure if I would damage the heads. I was able to move the header a wee bit until the strap broke on me. I'm not sure if these headers will bend enough because of the thickness of the tubes. I also trimmed the grade 8 bolt head after swapping the way it was installed (used to have the bolt on the outside and the nut on the inside).

I also made a dimple on the header but it seems like its just not enough. It looks like on AJ72's build the motor has quite a bit of slope to his motor/tranny. Sitting under the truck I was wondering if I could drop the tranny enough more to provide more slope and get that header to clear. I believe where I am at now is a proper angle around 6 degrees or so. But I have ran out of ideas and am asking for some help.

I've attached some pics to help get an idea. I'm also wondering if I should be more aggressive on the ratcheting/bending header idea. I'm sure I can get a bigger strap and give it a go, but should I be worried about the Alum heads? I also am not sure if heating it would be beneficial. And if I am to heat it, where would I get it hot at? It's the passenger side 2nd tube that is hitting the shackle bolt, but I just can't heat that part up to make the adjustment as they are all joined together at the end.

Open to any suggestions. Thanks for reading.

 

[NorCal69]

Ha, went through some of this during the long weekend. I guess it really never occurred to me that the FUSH on a 69-72 is different from the rest. Granted, I figured this out after I cut out the old FUSH and enlarged the hole for Kerts.

It looks like you are running the 2 1/2" springs, like me. After getting off the phone with Kert this morning, I'm going to make some up "garage style" that will be made for the 2.5 springs, instead of the 3" that the 69-72's came with. This should give another 1/2" for the Hookers to clear. I'm running the same as you and AJ.

Some pics from this weekend. I felt pretty dumb after I cut out the old for new and them realized there was no way this was going to work out.


Where the old holes lines up with the new FUSH

Oh, I tried to get Kert to put these in inventory, but he said they just wouldn't sell enough. It would be a one-off thing, so it's garage fab, Im thinking..


Edit: Photobucket all funky today, sorry

 

[Bowtie85]

I used a come-along on my k20 not to long ago, worked exceptionally well. It was redneck, but worked

 

[badmix]

Warm up truck and get a crow bar, move headers where you want and then let it cool. Its really that simple

 

[brandoneh]

Oh, I tried to get Kert to put these in inventory, but he said they just wouldn't sell enough. It would be a one-off thing, so it's garage fab, Im thinking..

Thanks Mike,

After looking at your pictures I am wondering if I too can bring myself a 1/2 inch clearance by installing ORD's FUSH. It looks like the shackle comes down along the frame rail and that will buy me some room. What are you thoughts?

Thanks for the advice.

Here's a pic of the ORD FUSH:

I used a come-along on my k20 not to long ago, worked exceptionally well. It was redneck, but worked

Thanks might try something more aggresive than my ratchet straps, find a buddy with a come along. Just a little nervous of the aluminum heads I guess. I get like that!

Warm up truck and get a crow bar, move headers where you want and then let it cool. Its really that simple

Thanks, but truck is far from being able to start.

 

[NorCal69]

The problem is, nobody makes a FUSH that is going to catch both legs of the frame. Everything newer is a flat plate with the four bolts on the outside leg. I don't know if that would weaken up the frame having so many holes (4 extra) in that area, but I'm thinking so. Maybe you could weld them up, but still....????

I'm actually in the garage making some new ones now that will catch both legs and use all of the same bolt holes. If it works out, I'll post some pics up later.

 

[Stomis]

I wouldnt worry about the additional holes. The majority of builds Ive seen havent done anything about the only holes when moving the hanger forward to correct shackle angle.

As far as your heads go I would bet the ranch that if you hit the headers with a torch first you'll have nothing to worry about. And if something does happen it will be a good reason to yank the header back off and helicoil the head like the damn things should have been from the factory

O and one more thing. You are going to hate yourself for buying a 1/4 in a clearance by flipping that upper shackle bolt so the header traps it should you ever need to change shackles.

 

[79rustyk10]

Headers can suck. I bought a set because 75%+ of the guys on a different forum reccomended them, only to have Huge installation issues. They were shorty's and supposed to replace the stock exhaust manifolds exactly, well they didnt but Summit made things right, so I cant complain too much.

 

[NorCal69]

Hey Brandon,

Started to make one side up last night and I think it/they will come out working pretty good. I left work and headed to the metal supply to get a piece of 2". A soon as I left there with my chunk, I realized that I could just use one of the extra fabricator bushings that I had laying around.

Here is a couple of pics of what I came up with last night.

I still need to gusset it up and weld them in, but ran out of time before dinner. Hopefully I can finish them up tonight.

 

[brandoneh]

Those look great Mike, looks very stout...I hope to have skills like that one day.

I think I will get the ORD FUSH and see where my shackle ends up from there. Perhaps find a way of strengthening it as well.

Thanks for the pics and advice.

 

[brandoneh]

Since the FUSH offered by Kurt and ORD does not work with a First Gen. Would it work if I trimmed the stock FUSH inner frame rail side to buy myself a 1/2 inch? Would I be losing a lot of strength for the hanger? I can trim down the shoulder bushings in the leaf springs bushings to even out the loss in the hanger width.

EDIT: Attached a pic of what I am pondering.

 

[Deuling]

But you would only be trimming one side. So if you trim both sides of the leaf bushing I feel like its gonna be off center

 

[dremu]

Rather than trimming the bushings -- which, uhh, I suspect would be painful -- you can likely get bushings in the right diameter but with smaller, err, heads. I don't know if your springs have different eyes from the 73-up trucks, so I can't speak to specifics.

And yeah, Deuling's right. If you take 1/2" off the inside and 1/4" off each bushing head, the spring would actually be scooted outward 1/4" at the back, but that's within their normal flex. Especially with such long shackles.

You could also make an offset shackle for the inside, with a bend in it. (You'd have to start with a longer piece, of course, to account for the bend, but it'd be easy enough to fab.)

If you're doing creative bushings for the bottom, though, you could do a mismatched set up top, maybe, with a bigger head on the outside of the frame rail (left side in your pic) and a small one on the inside, which would scoot the bolt, nut, and shackles outward. You still have the spring pack alignment issue to consider though.

Anyway, some thoughts.

-- A

 

[Ellisd]

...

Brandon,

Grab a torch, come-along / big ol pry bar and get it done

 

[wasted wages]

FWIW... I run hooker super comps with no clearance issues....on a big block...

 

[rdn2blazer]

Brandon,

Grab a torch, come-along / big ol pry bar and get it done

This is all you have to do. DO NOT cut your bushings.

 

[AJs72K5]

How much has your engine been raised? I only raised mine up 3/4" over Kert's stock position. This put that upper shackle bolt on the passenger side right between the two outside header tubes. There's no extra "slope" on my motor other than that. Angle of the pics may be misleading.

Did you try slipping in some 1/8" plate between the flange and the frame channel bracket? It'll be tight, but I noticed that when I tightened down the crossmember, it was pulling in the frame about 1/8" on each side.

 

[Engineered Vintage]

I have the same headers as AJ & you - I lifted my engine like AJ did - and my header is hitting in the same place as yours.

BUT

I have not tried to solve issue yet, as my tranny has been at my buddy's house waiting for a rebuild for the last year, and I'm not certain what the final tilt will be on my engine.

BUT

I don't think any engine tilt on my engine will fix this problem - so excited to see what you come up with.

 

[brandoneh]

This is all you have to do. DO NOT cut your bushings.

Okay, yah... bad idea!

How much has your engine been raised? I only raised mine up 3/4" over Kert's stock position. This put that upper shackle bolt on the passenger side right between the two outside header tubes. There's no extra "slope" on my motor other than that. Angle of the pics may be misleading.

Hey AJ, thanks for chiming in. I had Kert make another set of motor mounts before I put the headers in. So I now have 3 sets of motor mounts. I might try the ones that only raise the motor 1/2" and see where that leaves me. If I do drop it though, I might run into the C Channel part of the crossmember and would have to do the changes that you made to yours.

I don't think any engine tilt on my engine will fix this problem - so excited to see what you come up with.

Thanks Igor, glad I'm not the only one! Helping my brother paint his truck in the garage this week then I will try the other motor mount set and also a porta power. Hoping for a good solution.