Cost to build tow Rig..

[80' 427]

My 8.1 started at 340hp and 450ftlbs. Just a tune put it up to 380 and 510ftlbs. I think it runs great.
On another note I had a 78 454 out of a c10 that wouldn't pull a greased string out of a cats ass. I changed the cam to a tiny 204/214 duration cam, changed the intake to a wieand street warrior and added headers. The qjet was WAY lean. Tuned it on the dyno and it was a rocket. Honestly one of my favorite engines. It would blow the 37s off and bury the speedo with ease. This was a no compression (7.8 to 1) peanut port Marshal engine. Junk that most people toss.

 

[sreidmx]

I have an option to get a mid 70s gvan 30 RV from my father in law that's got 60k on it. So o could take that and the wife drives it while I tow the blazer. These trips at first will be few and if the family likes the blazer I can always drop that drivetrain into a crew cab.

 

[80' 427]

I found a 93 g30 with a 454/4l80e and a 14ff the other day. Perfect for towing and camping in.

 

[76zimmer]

just for consideration....my 76 CC C30 w/ 454/T400/4.10s was actually a good towing truck (total GCWR ~17000)...at 5mpg. it will pull 80mph if you want, but I'm sure it would struggle in the mtns. like any N/A engine.

 

[Avery4jc]

Except you are going to start spending thousands to repair those diesels. Are diesels good for towing? Absolutely, but the cost of maint really kills it for me.

This is a common misconception. There's a difference between maintenance and repairs. Sure I spend about $60 on a DIY oil change in my Dodge but it's absolutely worth it.
Repairs can get expensive but what isn't expensive these days? If the 48RE goes out it'll cost thousands... same as if the trans goes out in almost any modern vehicle.
The difference is many diesel guys are bit by some stupid bug that says they HAVE to upgrade everything. Heck if my stock 48RE lasted over 200k miles why wouldn't I just put another one in? Who says I have to put in a stage eleventybillion $9k trans?

whenever an auto makes it 200K, I figure it's given 100% of it's expected duty cycle and after that it's borrowed time. I personally don't think $13K is all that great of a deal, but prices vary depending on location too. Around here that is a bit much, but nothing rusts away here either.

Agreed on both accounts. $13k isn't a spectacular deal on that truck. I paid $15k for my cherry '05 Dodge with 185k on it. Lifted with $3k worth of wheels/tires on it. It was on craigslist for weeks. The deals are out there but you have to be ready to buy and you have to eventually be confident enough to just pull the trigger.

Well the wife put the Kabash on it because it's not a crew. So we're back to square one. Does a 454 k30 really need more balls to tow?

Yes. Gassers suck balls towing heavy with hills.

A HUGE UNSTATED ISSUE IN THESE CONVERSATIONS IS TERRAIN.

When I go four wheeling it involves pulling straight up the side of a friggin' mountain for upwards of two hours. Not some little bunny slope hill... hills so steep unloaded passenger cars not towing anything overheat. So yeah, it takes a heck of a rig to do that all the time without calling it quits.
If you tow on completely flat land a big block gas rig works but if hills are in your future forget about it.
"Modern" light duty diesel rigs have been around long enough these days that there's a good market of used trucks to choose from that fit almost any budget.

 

[80' 427]

5 mpg is only .36 per mile right now. That would take years to pay off a Cummins swap. My 8.1 gets 7 running 75-80 pulling my parachute crawler. Way cheaper than s duramax and gas is cheap.

 

[sreidmx]

I'm just trying to be realistic, I live in the hills and everywhere I go there is hills. Works at 100ft and home is 2800ft and any real wheeling spots are down in the low low desert like glamis and ocotillo wells, so that's a 3 hour uphill pull for me on the way back JV is the opposite so either way I'm tugging a small grade. Let's for shits and giggles, I think my k5 in its 4x config was 6-7k with the tilt trailer.

Maybe I should be looking at first gen dodges?? I don't know.,

 

[ktmoutfront]

Living 20 miles from the east side of the rockies, pulling hills with a load was the main reason for the semi. Any truck can run flat ground.

Real torque is needed for cruising of 11000 feet.

 

[80' 427]

Ibwould look at something with a turbo. I think my 8.1 would drag my k30 to Moab just fine, but not in a hurry.

 

[Avery4jc]

5 mpg is only .36 per mile right now. That would take years to pay off a Cummins swap. My 8.1 gets 7 running 75-80 pulling my parachute crawler. Way cheaper than s duramax and gas is cheap.

Again, all relevant to what part of the country you're in. Here diesel is cheaper than gas right now. Plus the smile on my face from a cheap fill-up would quickly fade every time I hit a hill while towing with a gas truck.

I'm just trying to be realistic, I live in the hills and everywhere I go there is hills. Works at 100ft and home is 2800ft and any real wheeling spots are down in the low low desert like glamis and ocotillo wells, so that's a 3 hour uphill pull for me on the way back JV is the opposite so either way I'm tugging a small grade. Let's for shits and giggles, I think my k5 in its 4x config was 6-7k with the tilt trailer.

Maybe I should be looking at first gen dodges?? I don't know.,

You're in So Cal... hills hills everywhere. I'm a Dodge guy but the problem is First gens weren't anything to write home about by today's standards until late in the game and second gens never came from the factory as a four door (which appears to be a requirement of yours)....
So either learn to live with an extended cab or save your pennies for an '03 and up quad cab third gen. Which I might add after owning both second and third gen dodge diesels the third gens are leaps and bounds FAR SUPERIOR from bumper to bumper than any previous Dodge rig stock for stock.

There's other options too though. '99-'03 7.3 Fords are solid and fit your budget and door criteria. Duramax's are fantastic rigs, I hear most guys hunt for '06 and '07's as they're post injector era issues but before all the urea and dpf filter smog stuff. Can't argue with the 5 and 6 speed Allison trans either.
If I had the money I'd find a 6 speed Allison equipped Duramax and put a WFO SAS kit under it and rock the heck out of it.

 

[blazinzuk]

454 to a first gen Cummins. The fight goes to the gas motor below 10k lbs above that the fight goes to the Cummins.

I was in high school when these came out. I was helping a farmer out during some long weekends. First time over towgatee pass the Cummins in the lead. It killed the big block cause the big block was down in first. Every time it hit second it would run up on the Cummins and then have to slow down.

Now add weight and the Cummins would pull that big block. But not by much.

The Cummins made it feel easier though.

Diesel is the best choice for towing. But its not nessacary at all. There is so much more that comes into play.

I have done a million scenarios in my head when I was gonna run a big block. I understand I would have been slower on hills than a newer diesel. But I'm only towing 7500 lbs usually. It would take FOREVER to break even in a Cummins swap. I would still want to do it.

It was not nor will it ever be ( for me) about setting my cruise and forgetting it. It's about the truck. And I love square bodies. So call it whatever you want.

Shoot when I tell people I'm putting in a 6.5 I have to listen to an hour of oh why not a Cummins why not a duramax. 6.5 worst motor ever built bla bla bla bla.

Build what you want be aware of its shortcoming and rock n freaking roll

 

[campfire]

It was not nor will it ever be ( for me) about setting my cruise and forgetting it. It's about the truck. And I love square bodies. So call it whatever you want.

Shoot when I tell people I'm putting in a 6.5 I have to listen to an hour of oh why not a Cummins why not a duramax. 6.5 worst motor ever built bla bla bla bla.

Build what you want be aware of its shortcoming and rock n freaking roll

This. There are 1000 combinations of parts out there that can get you from point A to point B. You could probably find 100 of those that would fit your needs well. Find one of those rigs and rock it.

 

[sreidmx]

The more I play with the idea the more I'd rather stay gm..

 

[sreidmx]

454 to a first gen Cummins. The fight goes to the gas motor below 10k lbs above that the fight goes to the Cummins.

I was in high school when these came out. I was helping a farmer out during some long weekends. First time over towgatee pass the Cummins in the lead. It killed the big block cause the big block was down in first. Every time it hit second it would run up on the Cummins and then have to slow down.

Now add weight and the Cummins would pull that big block. But not by much.

The Cummins made it feel easier though.

Diesel is the best choice for towing. But its not nessacary at all. There is so much more that comes into play.

I have done a million scenarios in my head when I was gonna run a big block. I understand I would have been slower on hills than a newer diesel. But I'm only towing 7500 lbs usually. It would take FOREVER to break even in a Cummins swap. I would still want to do it.

It was not nor will it ever be ( for me) about setting my cruise and forgetting it. It's about the truck. And I love square bodies. So call it whatever you want.

Shoot when I tell people I'm putting in a 6.5 I have to listen to an hour of oh why not a Cummins why not a duramax. 6.5 worst motor ever built bla bla bla bla.

Build what you want be aware of its shortcoming and rock n freaking roll

You make a very good point. 7500 I think is considered light duty.. Crap all the half tons now tow 10k.

 

[fabjunkie]

Not everyone gets bit by the snowball effect....Might as Well!
I'm with ya on this though...I'm into my 76CC for almost 9K including the purchase of the truck and the upcoming diesel conversion.
The 98 Dodge for the Cummins conversion and what I've done to the engine and beefed trans I'm into for about 6K right now.
I'm hoping to get it mehcanically/electrically reliable for around 12K, then the restoration work begins next phase.

Might as Well! > My wallets worst enemy. I was right at $10k when I drove my truck home to Denver from Phoenix after a week long thrash to put it together. It wasn't long after that I had to do the injection pump and tranny.
I've also upgraded everything along the way which is just a little more $ here and there but it adds up quick vs just doing stock parts.

Zimmer makes a very valid point with "next phase". You can have a dependable truck mechanically for $10-15k, but depending on what you can find to start with, it may not be the prettiest thing inside or out. Figure on $5k per phase. Truck, drivetrain, paint, interior, suspension. That's a bit high for some areas and right at or low for others but should account for unexpected expenses on major repairs. I think $25-30k is a reasonable amount for a full gone through truck by the time your done.
I'm afraid to add up what I have in my truck, but it's close to $20k if not over. I still need to do the interior, go through the transfer case, and a truck load of little stuff.

 

[Avery4jc]

454 to a first gen Cummins. The fight goes to the gas motor below 10k lbs above that the fight goes to the Cummins.

I rarely disagree with you (in fact I can't think of a time that I have) but I disagree.
I'll only say this one more time in this thread because I don't want to keep making a stink but most of you guys on CK5 live in flat lands.
Terrain is an absolute key factor in this conversation that people don't give much credit to.
10k pounds would straight kill a big block truck on the roads we tow on...trust me I used to tow with one.
I had an '00 K3500 with 4.10's and tires that measured about 32" and it moved the load but at a cost.

The problem is it was hurting so bad on these grades that it was a snowball effect. Slower I went the more things heated up which made me slow down more which made things even hotter. Not to mention it was a painstakingly slow tow. We're talking pulling my k10 with trailer...about 7k lbs.

You make a very good point. 7500 I think is considered light duty.. Crap all the half tons now tow 10k.

They will move that weight but it sucks doing so with one. Suspension and brakes leave much to be desired. Plus as I keep saying they'll do that on flat ground... add some decent grades and your life sucks.

Here's the highway we have to tow on to go four wheeling. It's hilly up to this point and once at the top of this things slow down to a 2 lane but still straight up the mountain to the trails. This video shows the section that's known as the "Four Lanes" and at 55mph you're on this for a good 15 minutes of pulling.
My buddy @chevysmithz71 and I used to do it in our big block gas trucks and it was horrible. Slow and always stopping. I remember one trip hanging out with him at the top with both trucks overheating and it wasn't even a hot summer day.

 

[80' 427]

It isn't flat where I live but it isn't mountains. The only problem with a 10k diesel is around here it would have 250k and be rode hard and put away wet.

 

[blazinzuk]

I don't think we disagree @Avery4jc . we actually agree but you don't NEED it. It's very nice to have. Especially if the future plan is for diesel.

A first gen Cummins vs a big block argument I know I'm right. Cause I towed all over Idaho, Wyoming and Montana. Not the flat bits. Anywhere from 9k to 15k. Remember first gen Cummins like an 89. First gen Cummins. Was nothing to write home about

 

[black dawg]

Another diesel truck that can be had for pretty cheap, are the 6.9l 7.3 idi fords. Add a turbo (if it doesnt already have one) and they tow quite well, especially the 7.3.

I have towed quite a bit with both my turbo 7.3 and my 454, both pretty similar numbers on paper. On flat ground the 454 feels quicker, easier to pass, once the elevation gets higher or pulling mountain passes, the 454 feels pretty anemic to the old diesel. Mpg isnt different enough between the to to matter, but this is with relatively light loads(around 8k)

 

[Hogback Fabrication]

A first gen Cummins vs a big block argument I know I'm right. Cause I towed all over Idaho, Wyoming and Montana. Not the flat bits. Anywhere from 9k to 15k. Remember first gen Cummins like an 89. First gen Cummins. Was nothing to write home about

A stock 1st gen Cummins isn't a powerhouse by any means.

That's the beauty of a diesel like that, with a few $$ in mods you can double or triple the stock output easy, and the motor is built to take it for hundreds of thousands of miles.

$200 Turbo swap from an '05 Cummins (near bolt on), turn up the pump, governor spring swap and a fuel pin and mine makes ~2x more than stock crank output at the rear wheels on 37's on an eddy brake dyno (the lowest #'s of any dyno). I wouldn't trade my Cummins in my tow rig for any big block, ever.

As far as cost, it all depends on the goal and where you spend the money. The 1st gen Dodge Cummins drivetrains are easy swaps into Chevys because they use the same passenger drop 205 t-case and the chassis' are similar dimensionally so they really fit up pretty well. I bought my complete K30 and '93 W350 drivetrain together (as an unfinished project) for $2600, probably spent $500-1000 in actually getting everything going (exhaust, intercooler, etc.). Then a bit more in mods for more power. Everything else is standard straight axle Chevy build stuff (suspension, shocks, etc.).

Gas and diesel engines each have their place and benefits. I had a long time to choose a tow rig (those who have been wheeling with me know I had a trailered buggy for years before I had a tow rig), and a straight axle Chevy with a 12V Cummins was a good choice.

But gas is SUPER cheap right now.