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Crossover drag link length?

garydan

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I'm planning on putting a 4" spring on the front. I bought this dana 60 that came with crossover steering w/high steer. It came with a drag link that has a tube length of 32". The axle came out of a toyota. I'm pretty sure I'll need a longer drag link. What is the proper length? Also, do I need a drop pitman arm for a 4" lift using a crossover setup? Point me in the right direction :D

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You have to measure from the center of each end not just the tube.

Those are not Sky steering arms.
 
You have to measure from the center of each end not just the tube.

Those are not Sky steering arms.

I just need to replace the tube (from toyota install), so measuring the length including the ends would be meaningless right?


Here is a better picture of the arm:
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and here are the drag-link ends:

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Well yeah unless you are looking to see if it will reach how it is right now. I can't be positive from the picture, but those arms don't seem to have the angle machined into them to account for the angles. If thats true I would suggest buying some new arms.

I can go measure my draglink.
 
Mine is 42.5" in a straight line from the center of the TRE's.

I am running a Superlift 1104 Pitman and a Sky steering arm.
 
are you gonna do weld in threaded ends? if so, just order 5' and cut to fit with your current arms and drag link ends.
 
Mine is 42.5" in a straight line from the center of the TRE's.

I am running a Superlift 1104 Pitman and a Sky steering arm.

Thank you for the measurements. I haven't installed the axle into my truck yet, so I don't know exactly how long I need it yet, or if the drag link I have fits already.

If my tube is 32" and the drag link ends are 7" and 9" to the center hole, that gives me a total of 48", giving me about 5.5 inches to thread in to get a 42.5" total length. Of course once I get the axle installed I'll know for sure.

I'll take a look at those angles when I get home today but I think you are right about them.
 
Or if you want to run different ends. Figure out which ones will give you the right length.

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There is no "standard length". While ride height is not a huge factor, the length of the steering arms, ends, Inserts, and pitman arm can change things quite a bit. I think mine came out About 41" center to center.

The only proper way to do it is to get the axle located under there, center the pitman arm, and measure.

I would suggest a pitman arm with as little drop as possible to clear the frame. The superlift arm tends to give clearance issues with the ubolts and/or tie rod with us low-lift guys. I am running the elusive Ford van arm which is 1.75" drop and it just clears the frame. I have stock 52"s up front and I'm about 4" over stock height.

If your ends are two different lengths, it sounds to me like you're running a TRE and a DLE. DLEs have way more angle capability, and are what I would recommend running. I suspect you are currently running ES2026 (DLE) and ES2234 (TRE). It was probably done that way because most steering arms aren't tapered for the bigger DLE. You should build your drag link to run the same ends on both sides if possible. Running a TRE on one or both sides is likely going to bend the end as the suspension reaches it's limits, but they may be a bit stronger than DLEs (although I've never seen a DLE fail, Ive seen TREs fail on draglinks).

Whatever you do, the TREs and DLEs are different lengths, so figure out your permanent plans before you cut and weld anything. It's very unlikely that you can change your mind later without making things twice or being a big hassle.
 
There is no "standard length". While ride height is not a huge factor, the length of the steering arms, ends, Inserts, and pitman arm can change things quite a bit. I think mine came out About 41" center to center.

The only proper way to do it is to get the axle located under there, center the pitman arm, and measure.

I would suggest a pitman arm with as little drop as possible to clear the frame. The superlift arm tends to give clearance issues with the ubolts and/or tie rod with us low-lift guys. I am running the elusive Ford van arm which is 1.75" drop and it just clears the frame. I have stock 52"s up front and I'm about 4" over stock height.

If your ends are two different lengths, it sounds to me like you're running a TRE and a DLE. DLEs have way more angle capability, and are what I would recommend running. I suspect you are currently running ES2026 (DLE) and ES2234 (TRE). It was probably done that way because most steering arms aren't tapered for the bigger DLE. You should build your drag link to run the same ends on both sides if possible. Running a TRE on one or both sides is likely going to bend the end as the suspension reaches it's limits, but they may be a bit stronger than DLEs (although I've never seen a DLE fail, Ive seen TREs fail on draglinks).

Whatever you do, the TREs and DLEs are different lengths, so figure out your permanent plans before you cut and weld anything. It's very unlikely that you can change your mind later without making things twice or being a big hassle.
 
Here's some pictures I just snapped for ya: Ubolts look goofy, I haven't decided if I'm gonna run a zero rate up front yet, so it's not finished :)
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The Superlift arm would only give you ~2.5" of clearance from the leaf at ride height. I just want to put it out there, that you'll be really, really close under compression if you run a drop pitman. These trucks dont have the proper shape to the frame for crossover, so things get tight real quick. The draglink is pretty darn flat anyway due to this same reason, I don't think you'd really find it necessary unless you've got like 8" or more lift. I have zero "noticeable" roll steer with my setup, and its built to wheel in the rocks.

I have ES2026R (right hand thread) on both ends of my draglink. That is the stock GM Drag Link End for all solid axle 4x4s (at least of the 73-88 years). These handle I think around 60* angles, whereas TREs only handle about 20*s. They're quite a bit longer than TREs, and I think the actual length of tube I needed, minus the inserts, was 26". I ran two right hand threads because I only need one spare, and the left-hand inserts were more expensive. I could only adjust the drag link to within about 1/8" because I have to do full turns, but that is pretty damn close for a wheeler. It drives better on the highway than my DD in the end anyways.

I would highly recommend running DLEs instead of TREs for a couple reasons:

They are more plentiful at parts stores because all solid-axle GMs (K5s, Subs, 1/2-1 ton trucks) used them. This also means they are a bit cheaper.

TREs tend to be special order sometimes in my region (Reno)

Most suspensions need the angle capability of a DLE (that's why there are special ends for drag links)

You can't run GM left/right hand corresponding TREs. Everything but 1 tons used a longer drivers side TRE with a hole for the steering stabilizer (the 1tons actually use a ~52" drivers side TRE that is the whole damn bar and costs $60+, go figure it's cheaper to make a 1.5" DOM tie rod than it is to rebuild the stock one :rolleyes:). I suppose you could use it, but it is known for bending at the hole. If you want to run left/right hand thread TREs, your best option is to use ES2234R (pass. side blazer-3/4 ton TRE) and ES2010L (W-series Dodge TRE). These Dodge ends are obtainable, but in AK and NV, they are more expensive and not as well stocked as GM ends because they just never sold as many. My truck is built with available parts as the number one factor, so this killed it for me. If I'm driving home through Canada for the summer, or making a road trip to Moab for spring break, I want to know that I can get parts at any parts store. This is probably my favorite thing about owning 4 GM trucks too.

EDIT:
I just went and looked more carefully at your pictures (difficult on an iPhone). Looks like you are running GM DLEs on the draglink, so that's good. It sounds like you have enough room for adjustment that your drag link should be fine in length. So long as you have at least 7/8" of each end threaded in, the threads won't be a point of failure (at least not due to too little threads). I do agree that you should eventually invest in new arms. Having the angle correction for the camber in the knuckles will make your ends last a lot longer. I was patient and got a used set for a lot cheaper than new, and you'll probably be OK for a good while with those arms. I will suggest getting arms that use a set screw (I chose Ballistic, also cheaper than most) instead of a kingpin spring or shims. ORD has some of the best arms I've seen (correct ackerman angle and length for common pitmans), but I don't care for kingpin springs with big tires (40"+).

Looks like you're steering is good enough for a while on that 60. Getting the right pitman is probably going to be tricky. You're probably going to have some understeer because pitmans that work well on GMs are usually shorter than most steering arms on the market (another reason I like ORDs arms). It's easier to make a custom steering arm (made them before) than a custom pitman arm, so I'd suggest getting the pitman that fits you well and then figuring out steering arms later.
 
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Wow that was a ton of usefull info there. Thank you! While I'm digesting it, I do have one question about your setup. The crossmember, will I have to replace it with something like yours to get proper clearance?
 
if you use a straight draglink your more then likely going need to buy of build a new engine x-member unless you use a long drop pitman arm. use a bent draglink and you can keep the stock x-member.
 
Wow that was a ton of usefull info there. Thank you! While I'm digesting it, I do have one question about your setup. The crossmember, will I have to replace it with something like yours to get proper clearance?

You may be able to notch the stock one, I dunno. I would recommend taking a look at your crossmember very carefully, however. Just about every truck I've looked at in junk yards (even a few 91s), have had some severe cracking and fatigue at the crossmember, towers, and motor mounts. It is way easier to do the crossmember and motor mounts with the front axle out.

WAY easier.
 
Looks like you're steering is good enough for a while on that 60. Getting the right pitman is probably going to be tricky. You're probably going to have some understeer because pitmans that work well on GMs are usually shorter than most steering arms on the market (another reason I like ORDs arms). It's easier to make a custom steering arm (made them before) than a custom pitman arm, so I'd suggest getting the pitman that fits you well and then figuring out steering arms later.


While I'm replacing the front axle, I need to get new front springs. The springs I have are seriously worn. I was thinking about a 4" lift, then I got to thinking about 52" rear springs on the front to do it. It might actually end up being cheaper than just getting new 4" lift springs. So now that I see your setup, I might have something very similar. Where did you find your pitman arm?

I'm still researching the 52" swap. I guess I can buy the front hangers from DIY4X, but what did you do on the rear hangars? What size shackle are you running? I'm new to all of this, so I don't know too much yet. So if you have any input in this area it would be greatly appreciated as well.

Thanks Again,
Gary
 
I have the elusive 70s ford van pitman arm. It's the best one I've seen for this application, but they seem to be quite hard to find. Do a search for my name and pitman arm. Recently I posted a thread with pictures, part number, and what the vans look like. You may also be able to rekey an arm off an 80s van. They're about the same but 45* off.

I think the 52/56s would be better for ya. It'd be cheaper, ride better, flex better, etc. 4" stock shackles will let the spring hit the frame. I cut some 6" shackles out of 3/8" strap. Cost me about $4, and they are STRONG. I've already dropper the whole truck off a ledge onto them. My frame eye is in the stock location. It will droop more than any 3" slipyoke can handle right now (separated it last night). When I can afford a fancy driveline, I'm going to run 56"s to improve the shackle angle. I don't feel that movin the frame eye is worth it unless you want to run 46"s. You can't move the spring forward much more due to the frame ending anyways.

I would recommend eventually replacing the eye with Kert's or ORD's. The stock bushing is too small, and the bigger ones will last much longer. My PO replaced mine right befor I bought the truck, so I'm gonna run it until it wears out.

I've got tons of info on this stuff but I've got to take notes in Statics right now. Feel free to post any questions you have and I'll do my best to answer them (I'm sure many others here will too). I think this info would be good to be in a thread somewhere so people can find it with a google search.
 
Well I decided against 52's up front. I've ordered a set of 6" TC EZ Rides for the front. Knowing this, could I get the superlift pitman arm now? Will I need a bent drag link still? Will my DLE's fit in that superlift arm (how can you tell the difference between DLE's and TRE's?), or do I need to get the customized superlift pitman from WFO Concepts?

http://www.wfoconcepts.com/pr/Superlift-1104-Machined/3163/3360/3361

On another note, I got the 2wd sector shaft I picked up at the junk yard today. So pitman arm ordering is next...
 

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