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Cummins swapping... Axle wrap questions

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ricktheengineer5

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Howdy everyone. Ill keep this short. I have an M1009 that will be swapped to a cummins 6bt (440 ftlb torque model). I want to get the ORD custom leaf springs, and I already have the shackle flip. I will increase my lift from 4" to 6" on 35s, complete with 14bff/d60 combo. Here is my question.

I am going to be towing a 4000lb trailer from time to time OFFROAD, so there will be some irregular obstacles and abuse in that respect. Should I be very concerned about axle wrap with ORD's very flexy springs? Or will this likely not be too severe as to literally require a traction bar? Thoughts? Thanks!
 
List your concerns to ORD. If they are building your springs they will be custom made for you. They take all of that into consideration before making them for you. Just keep in mind Towing and a flexy suspension do not a happy driver make so finding that happy medium somewhere in the middle is what you are looking for. 4K lbs isn't much weight towing though.
 
Vombrown said:
List your concerns to ORD. If they are building your springs they will be custom made for you. They take all of that into consideration before making them for you. Just keep in mind Towing and a flexy suspension do not a happy driver make so finding that happy medium somewhere in the middle is what you are looking for. 4K lbs isn't much weight towing though.
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I actually just spoke with them, and they didnt really have much to say. They said they dont know, and that they only make 1 kind of spring rate without an overload leaf. What you get is what you get it seems
 
Leaf springs and torque = axle wrap. At least in a spring over situation.

To keep it in check and not detract from ride or flex a traction bar is likely your best answer. But one that is shackle mounted at the frame end
 
ricktheengineer5 said:
I actually just spoke with them, and they didnt really have much to say. They said they dont know, and that they only make 1 kind of spring rate without an overload leaf. What you get is what you get it seems
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Our springs are custom built based on the weight of the vehicle, we do lots of different spring rates based on lots of different vehicle weights. Basically we use a heavier spring for a heavier truck, and a lighter spring on a lighter truck, to end up with the target frequency we're looking for. Basically that means they'll ride and work how we want regardless of how heavy the truck is, tailoring the weight of the spring to the weight of the truck is what makes them custom.

If the trailer were on the truck all the time, we could account for that in the springs. When you take the trailer off, the truck would sit really tall and ride stiffer. Or we can build the springs assuming you won't tow the trailer, then it would squat a bunch with the trailer on it. You can't have the best of both worlds with leaves without some additional temporary load capacity (like air bags, air shocks, that kind of deal).

Spring rate and axle wrap are directly related, a softer spring will wrap more.
 
Yes definitely do some type of an off road friendly traction bar(one with a shackle at the front of it). Most of them out there for the new trucks just solid mount both ends and then they won't let the axle move in it's path to follow the spring. Especially with a softer more flexible suspension. Might have to so some long travel air bags or those Daystar air bag cradles that let the both of the spring just sit in a cup on the axle. Depends how much tongue weight you will have. I go all over in the mtns with a 13,000lb 33 ft fifth wheel and some extremely stiff springs on my tow rig. Also having a limited slip or locker out back helps.
 
Vombrown said:
4K lbs isn't much weight towing though.
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But it does sound kind of heavy for a compact adventure trailer-type thing. Maybe a converted military trailer? At 10% tongue weight, that's 400lbs added to the back of the truck. While that probably means a couple inches of squat, having the trailer likely moves 400 lbs of cargo out of the back of the truck.
 
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Blue85 said:
But it does sound kind of heavy for a compact adventure trailer-type thing. Maybe a converted military trailer? At 10% tongue weight, that's 400lbs added to the back of the truck. While that probably means a couple inches of squat, having the trailer likely moves 400 lbs of cargo out of the back of the truck.
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With a flexy suspension it will likely be more squat than that... I can't remember what my old blazer (very flexy 1 ton) would squat with a 6k car hauler behind it but it was ridiculous. I towed one trailer a short distance and never again.
 
Well 100lbs/in is really soft and with 200lb/side, that's 2". Stock 52's are stiffer than that.

The problem with heavy off-road trailers is that the vehicle likes weight distribution on-road, but those setups are really limiting off-road.
 
Traction bars are nice to have anyways. I wish I did.

Air bags + a traction bar may be your setup. Then you can run soft good riding springs all sround town and air the bags up whenever you see fit.
 
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