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d44hd vs toyota 7.5 front axle

87odb

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First, is a d44 with 8 lugs considered a hd or not? it came off a 3/4 so ill assume yes.

second question. which one is better? my friend has a 85 toyota 4runner that he did a sas on and he keeps telling me that a regular d44 is no match for his 7.5 and that its equal to a d44hd, is this true?

Also, he keeps telling me to get a d60 that my d44hd isnt that great. So should i get a d60?
 
First off a toyota 7.5in front axle is IFS.

a toy 8in is a straight axle and is on the same par with a dana 44 stock BUT the upgrades for a toy axle make it much stronger than the equivalent upgrades for a dana 44.


Under a fullsize rig anything over 35s should have a dana 60 front.
 
And there is no strength difference internally between a Dana 44 6 lug and Dana 44 8 lug.
 
ugh d60s are expensive and i just bought this d44 for $75. So can my rig survive on 35s with a d44?
 
BUT the upgrades for a toy axle make it much stronger than the equivalent upgrades for a dana 44.

This is true when you're comparing torque and tire size. Toy fronts have stronger upgradeable moving parts (although I think the ring and pinions would be comparable, Toy is smaller but has a pilot bearing on the pinion). The upgraded Toy shafts will handle pretty similar torque to a stock 60 shaft.

However, the Toy axle has much less inertia than the Dana 44, so it will have a lot higher bending stress in the tubes. The knuckle balls on Toys are notoriously weak, and there's no way they would hold up better than a Dana 44 inner C, especially when you consider how much shorter the axle tubes are on the Toy (less bending stress). I realize there are ball knuckle upgrades, but in my opinion it's a custom axle at that point. You could build any center section with any outers you want in theory, and I don't really consider it a 9"/Toy/14 bolt anymore when it's only the carrier with custom outers. The Toy knuckles are also a lot smaller than the 44s, which means they're going to have a lot higher stress in the material when they're loaded.

If you were to put a built Toy axle and a stock 44 under the same heavy truck, the Toy axle would probably break less shafts from torque, but I'd bet the Toy housing would bend easier. Which means that Toys are going to get away with ~40s on a built stock housing, but only because the truck is light and the housing itself (not talking about the internals) doesn't have that much stress put on it.

I've wheeled lots of fullsizes on D44s with 35-37s without too much trouble. Leaving the carrier open will make a huge difference. You need to be proactive about maintenance like bearings, balljoints, and ujoints, but if you wheel with a brain and avoid bouncing tires and such, it will be fine. And as stated above, there's no such thing as a "HD" 44. The internals are the same. There are older external hub 44s, but they were all internal hub by somewhere in the mid 70s I believe.
 
This is true when you're comparing torque and tire size. Toy fronts have stronger upgradeable moving parts (although I think the ring and pinions would be comparable, Toy is smaller but has a pilot bearing on the pinion). The upgraded Toy shafts will handle pretty similar torque to a stock 60 shaft.

However, the Toy axle has much less inertia than the Dana 44, so it will have a lot higher bending stress in the tubes. The knuckle balls on Toys are notoriously weak, and there's no way they would hold up better than a Dana 44 inner C, especially when you consider how much shorter the axle tubes are on the Toy (less bending stress). I realize there are ball knuckle upgrades, but in my opinion it's a custom axle at that point. You could build any center section with any outers you want in theory, and I don't really consider it a 9"/Toy/14 bolt anymore when it's only the carrier with custom outers. The Toy knuckles are also a lot smaller than the 44s, which means they're going to have a lot higher stress in the material when they're loaded.

If you were to put a built Toy axle and a stock 44 under the same heavy truck, the Toy axle would probably break less shafts from torque, but I'd bet the Toy housing would bend easier. Which means that Toys are going to get away with ~40s on a built stock housing, but only because the truck is light and the housing itself (not talking about the internals) doesn't have that much stress put on it.

I've wheeled lots of fullsizes on D44s with 35-37s without too much trouble. Leaving the carrier open will make a huge difference. You need to be proactive about maintenance like bearings, balljoints, and ujoints, but if you wheel with a brain and avoid bouncing tires and such, it will be fine. And as stated above, there's no such thing as a "HD" 44. The internals are the same. There are older external hub 44s, but they were all internal hub by somewhere in the mid 70s I believe.

I would say thats a very accurate assessment. The actual housing and structure of the dana 44 is stronger but the thing that most people break (axle shafts) are way better upgraded in a toy as you said.
 
Toy axles are great but compare a built 44 to a built toy and they will both break, the 44 most likely shafts and ball joints, the toy most likely will break ring and pinions or bend the housing at the knuckle balls. Unless you use aftermarket knuckles both can and do sheer steering bolts of where high steer is used. one thing the 44 will always have is brake size and width.

as far as running a 44 with 35s, good greif rock on dude, I ran an open 10 bolt for years on 38s, broke stuff but not too often.

the other thing about the 44 is its way easier to match it up to a big rear axle. toy axles are great but compared strength wise to say a 14 bolt its kind of silly.

So while his toy front really will compare and in some cases beat a front 44 a toy rear is not at the same level as a 14 bolt
 
This is true when you're comparing torque and tire size. Toy fronts have stronger upgradeable moving parts (although I think the ring and pinions would be comparable, Toy is smaller but has a pilot bearing on the pinion).

Toyota's don't have a third pinion bearing like a 9" or 14 bolt and the front axles are 7.5" ring gears (the rear axle is 8").

Stock to stock the Toyota is significantly weaker, with a set of aftermarket shafts/birfields the Toyota gets into Dana 44 territory, at least as far as shafts are concerned. The tiny Toyota ring gear will be a weak point long before the Dana 44 ring gear is.

The upgraded Toy shafts will handle pretty similar torque to a stock 60 shaft.

Prove it
 
IFS Toy fronts are 7.5" ring gears. All of the non-Taco 4WD solid axles are 8", front or rear. The V6 rears have a stronger case and a stronger stock diff. The axle shafts are no joke for such a small axle. No way I'd run one in a fullsize truck or throw 454 power at them, but I have a 4Runner on 35s with lockers and stock axles/birfs (290,000 miles) that has never given me trouble. Couple guys I know are running 42's on upgraded axles and birfs with no breakage. 4cyl powered but with dual cases, so the torque input is considerable. In the application they were designed for, they are plenty stout. Abuse it or take it beyond what it was designed for, and you're going to have problems. Same as a 44.
 
Toyota's don't have a third pinion bearing like a 9" or 14 bolt and the front axles are 7.5" ring gears (the rear axle is 8").

Stock to stock the Toyota is significantly weaker, with a set of aftermarket shafts/birfields the Toyota gets into Dana 44 territory, at least as far as shafts are concerned. The tiny Toyota ring gear will be a weak point long before the Dana 44 ring gear is.



Prove it

The pilot bearing I'd assumed from what toyota people had told me (I've never owned one so who am I to assume they're wrong).

The torque assumption is because the 30 spline longfields are 1.31" diameter just like the stock 60 stubs. I realize the ujoint is a lot stronger on the 60 than a Longfield birfield, but I've usually had 30 spine 60 stubs break before a good ujoint. I didn't actually investigate the yield strength of either material so maybe I'm wrong.
 
Toyota's don't have a third pinion bearing like a 9" or 14 bolt and the front axles are 7.5" ring gears (the rear axle is 8").

Stock to stock the Toyota is significantly weaker, with a set of aftermarket shafts/birfields the Toyota gets into Dana 44 territory, at least as far as shafts are concerned. The tiny Toyota ring gear will be a weak point long before the Dana 44 ring gear is.


Solid axle toys ( mini trucks) are 8" ring and pinions, they interchange front to back. Having seen a D44 in the front of a toy vs a toy axle in the front of a toy built almost identical. The toy axle held up much better.

The true weakness of the toy axle is its diff size and the fact that very very few people actually set up the diffs correctly, most get 9/10s of the way there which it means it will last but not as long as it could.

V-6 gears have a stronger pinion and much larger bearing.

The toy is a great light small axle package, but like I said it will never have width on a 44, width off road = stability its a good thing. It will also never have better brakes than a 44.

Its very difficult to compare a 44 to a toy axle because the 44 usually goes on a larger heavier rig making everything more difficult for the 44 but given the choice between a narrowed 44 and a toy axle I would pick the toy axle every single time
 
Toyota's don't have a third pinion bearing like a 9" or 14 bolt and the front axles are 7.5" ring gears (the rear axle is 8").

Stock to stock the Toyota is significantly weaker, with a set of aftermarket shafts/birfields the Toyota gets into Dana 44 territory, at least as far as shafts are concerned. The tiny Toyota ring gear will be a weak point long before the Dana 44 ring gear is.



Prove it


Proved

torquetestgraph.jpg
 
ugh d60s are expensive and i just bought this d44 for $75. So can my rig survive on 35s with a d44?
Some will tell you "No"....

I'll tell you, "Wheel light, or spend $$$..."

I have 37's, and all this junk in my 10b, and am confident in it.
Though, now, w/ the LockRight, I might have some fun days... :haha:

Front axle:
- GM 8.5"- 10b, 8 lug. (28sp.)
- 4.10 Sierra gears.
- Richmond 'Lock-Right' Locker.
- Timken bearings and seals.
- Yukon 4340 Axle shafts.
- Spicer HD U-joints.
- Stock manual locking hubs.
- Reid knuckles. (One on, one in the garage.)
- ORD HD Tierod. (1.25"/.375 wall)
- ORD TRE's.
- '77 K20 Rotors/Calipers.
- ORD extended braklines, braided steel.
- CV 'high-angle' driveshaft.
 
Dont forget different year front axles housing of toyotas (with solid front axles), there are different lengths in the factory axle trusses too.. i believe the under axle truss was from center housing to the end of the axle (at least it was on my 85)
 
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