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D60 4340 steel 30-spline stubs...
- Thread starter jms
- Start date
Why? Is there a reason you don't want to up grade to 35 splines stuff which has more brand options?
To each to his own.
Seriously I don't know anyone who makes set.
If it was me, I either use the stockers, or save a little more to buy the hubs that go the 35 spline conversion.
I'm going down to the off road expo tomorrow. I may ask a few venders if they make a 30 spline stubs.
Seriously I don't know anyone who makes set.
If it was me, I either use the stockers, or save a little more to buy the hubs that go the 35 spline conversion.
I'm going down to the off road expo tomorrow. I may ask a few venders if they make a 30 spline stubs.
Michael, for what you do with your truck, I think the stock stuff will be fine .
Juan is still running stock 30 spline stubs....
Juan is still running stock 30 spline stubs....
Well, there wasn't as many axle venders at the Expo like there where in years past. There were about three venders
I didn't get to ask about your application because I was asking about upgrade alxes for my 14sf.
1st question I asked, do you have a upgrade axles for the GM 9.5".
Answer -- yes we sell an axle that is 20% stronger than stock.
2nd question -- where are the axles made.
India, or imported.
There is not many axles made the us anymore.
I didn't feel I need to ask your application because the three venders all had imported stuff. I wished Superior and Moser was there so I could asked them.
Yukon, Motive Gear, and I forgot who the third was, but these were the people I talked to.
I didn't get to ask about your application because I was asking about upgrade alxes for my 14sf.
1st question I asked, do you have a upgrade axles for the GM 9.5".
Answer -- yes we sell an axle that is 20% stronger than stock.
2nd question -- where are the axles made.
India, or imported.
There is not many axles made the us anymore.
I didn't feel I need to ask your application because the three venders all had imported stuff. I wished Superior and Moser was there so I could asked them.
Yukon, Motive Gear, and I forgot who the third was, but these were the people I talked to.
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]From the bible:
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif](note these figures are subject to much debate) [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Standard Dana axles (1040 steel, induction hardened)[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]30 sp 1.31" 6,044.1 ft/lbs[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]35 sp 1.50" 8,966.2 ft/lbs.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Moser Engineering (1541m, induction hardened) [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]30 Spline - 6,200 ft/ lbs. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]35 spline - 9,600 ft/lbs. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Aftermarket 4340 steel, thru hardened[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]30sp 1.31" 9,923.5 ft/lbs[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]35 sp 1.5" 14,721 ft/lbs [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Formula is:[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Yield Torque (in/lb)= Tensile Strength ( psi) x polar moment of inertia/ radius of material [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The theoretical axle size by spline to percent strength increase, assuming same material, diameter, and heat treat is: 30 spline – 35 spline: ~40% [/FONT]
Kinda funny since no aftermarket company has made a 4340 30 spline stub shaft.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif](note these figures are subject to much debate) [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Standard Dana axles (1040 steel, induction hardened)[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]30 sp 1.31" 6,044.1 ft/lbs[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]35 sp 1.50" 8,966.2 ft/lbs.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Moser Engineering (1541m, induction hardened) [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]30 Spline - 6,200 ft/ lbs. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]35 spline - 9,600 ft/lbs. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Aftermarket 4340 steel, thru hardened[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]30sp 1.31" 9,923.5 ft/lbs[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]35 sp 1.5" 14,721 ft/lbs [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Formula is:[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Yield Torque (in/lb)= Tensile Strength ( psi) x polar moment of inertia/ radius of material [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The theoretical axle size by spline to percent strength increase, assuming same material, diameter, and heat treat is: 30 spline – 35 spline: ~40% [/FONT]
Kinda funny since no aftermarket company has made a 4340 30 spline stub shaft.
[/FONT]
I don't know of anyone specifically but I know Superior has their domestic line that is the super strong stuff but they are also pushing an import line that is nearly as strong or the same strength and less money. Maybe they have a 30 spline stub?
You can also look at the up grade to the dynatrac hubs, they work well and if they break which isn't often they resort to full lock instead of unlocked. I know it's not a low cost solution but that gets you into 35 spline stuff with a good locking hub.
You can also look at the up grade to the dynatrac hubs, they work well and if they break which isn't often they resort to full lock instead of unlocked. I know it's not a low cost solution but that gets you into 35 spline stuff with a good locking hub.
owenst7
1/2 ton status
Are slugs really out of the question? I've seen some on Pirate that are pretty easy to remove with a hex key and keep the bearings capped off. They're set up so that you can drive to the trail, pop the slug in there, and remove it again when you drive home.
I know it's not nearly as convenient as a traditional lockout, but how often do you really get in and out and play with the hubs? You can always shift the tcase in to 2x4 to pull in a parking lot or something.
I know it's not nearly as convenient as a traditional lockout, but how often do you really get in and out and play with the hubs? You can always shift the tcase in to 2x4 to pull in a parking lot or something.
owenst7
1/2 ton status
One issue I have with his math is that he's using tensile strength to calculate yield torque instead of yield strength. Tensile strength is the point where failure happens, while yield strength is the lower point where permanent (plastic) deformation occurs. Yield strength is probably the more appropriate figure here since you can't really have the stub changing dimensions a whole lot.
Of course, you've got cyclic loading and variables like creep, crack propagation, strain hardening at the splines, etc. not to mention quality control. That's why all these figures are most likely obtained from destructive testing. Theoretical values are probably borderline useless here except to decide whether it's worth the effort to manufacture prototypes for testing.
If you look at the failures of the 35-spline Warns they always seem to be big tires, big power, lots of gearing, and hardcore wheelin'. Also keep in mind that while you hear about 8 guys having troubles with the hubs there are probably thousands and thousands of them out on the trail. There are two guys in our club with the 35-spline Warns and neither have had a failure after many years on the trail and they are run hard. Granted, they are not quite as heavy and "only" run 37's but still. One is a YJ with heavy 37" Boggers, steel beadlocks, spooled front w/ 5.13 gears, NV4500, 3.8 Atlas (lots of gearing and shock loading) that I have seen with all 4 tires off the ground bouncing up a rock ledge.
Years ago I debated this option but finally decided to go 35-spline instead. At the time Yukon made a chromoly 30-spline stub and don't know if they still do, but honestly I would seriously consider just going to 35-spline. I used the exact same arguments you mentioned for wanting the 30-spline stuff but they guys in our club talked me out of it, and I have never regretted it. The other option would be to just pick up a pair of stock 30-splines stubs to carry as spares. Look around and you always seem to see someone selling a used pretty cheap after upgrading.
Years ago I debated this option but finally decided to go 35-spline instead. At the time Yukon made a chromoly 30-spline stub and don't know if they still do, but honestly I would seriously consider just going to 35-spline. I used the exact same arguments you mentioned for wanting the 30-spline stuff but they guys in our club talked me out of it, and I have never regretted it. The other option would be to just pick up a pair of stock 30-splines stubs to carry as spares. Look around and you always seem to see someone selling a used pretty cheap after upgrading.
Also keep in mind that those numbers are all theoretical based on a formula and assuming best-case scenario (thru-hardened and quality material). Based on past internet posts from people it could be questionable if the Yukon's are that high of quality, and hence if their 30-spline stub is truly stronger than a Spicer.
owenst7
1/2 ton status
Aren't Ford Dana 50 stubs the same as 60s? I know the lockout and the ujoint is the same, but I don't know about the length.
They sure are easy to find around here in junkyards and it's only like $30/pair.
They sure are easy to find around here in junkyards and it's only like $30/pair.
)
Actual breaking torque numbers I've heard from good 4340 35 spl. stuff is typically about 11Kft-lb. 30 spline should be 6K or so? I just came up with nearly 70% stronger just from the geometry on a 1.31" to 1.5" upgrade. You can't make that up with material strength increase.
Really for a 35" tire, running stock 30spl stuff is going to be fine, I don't know that I'd carry spare anything for exploring. 30 spl 4340 is a nice step up from there. If you want real insurance, go to any 35 spl. and then for sure don't carry anything. I do believe part of the point of carting around a D60 up front is so you don't have to carry spare parts at all.
Yukon shafts are better than they have been, we've also seen a rash of broken stuff from them but it's been specific part numbers and seems to be in the past now. The 30 spline stubs should be pretty solid at this point. Not as good as Superior but I don't see superior listing a 30 spl. stub, only 35 spl. If you want to be done, we can get you a superior discovery 35 spl stub and then it's finished for good.
I don't think you would have any trouble with any locking hub brand. I've run Warn, Tera and Dynatrac and any of them will hold up to your use. Warn is a pain because of the fit issues. Dynatrac is expensive, worth it if you need the strength which I do and you don't. Tera/Mile Marker will break the leaf springs sometimes. I prefer the Teras overall.
Really for a 35" tire, running stock 30spl stuff is going to be fine, I don't know that I'd carry spare anything for exploring. 30 spl 4340 is a nice step up from there. If you want real insurance, go to any 35 spl. and then for sure don't carry anything. I do believe part of the point of carting around a D60 up front is so you don't have to carry spare parts at all.
Yukon shafts are better than they have been, we've also seen a rash of broken stuff from them but it's been specific part numbers and seems to be in the past now. The 30 spline stubs should be pretty solid at this point. Not as good as Superior but I don't see superior listing a 30 spl. stub, only 35 spl. If you want to be done, we can get you a superior discovery 35 spl stub and then it's finished for good.
I don't think you would have any trouble with any locking hub brand. I've run Warn, Tera and Dynatrac and any of them will hold up to your use. Warn is a pain because of the fit issues. Dynatrac is expensive, worth it if you need the strength which I do and you don't. Tera/Mile Marker will break the leaf springs sometimes. I prefer the Teras overall.
