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death wobble *update*

i just switched over to high steer, i used to have the stock tie rod without a steering stabilizer, got death wobble, added a steering stabilizer to mask it and it went away, went to high steer with all new components without an alignment and i got the dw, got it alligned dead on and have been death wobble free without a steering stabilizer
 
jolane said:
I just experienced DW for the first time this weekend...WOW! I just have 35's on 4" springs and ORD's HD shackles (front springs). The tires ARE balanced and like new. I never had an issue with my 10B on the same suspension. I have brand new ORD X-over and tie rod setup (thus no steering damper). I experienced it when I hit a small bump, hit the brakes hard (I was bedding in new pads), even for no particular reason it seemed. I tried accelerating thru it, but that did not help. Had to stop on a 50 mph 3 lane road! That sucked!

So...I have been thinking about the issue. It seems like once it starts, it resonates the whole front of the vehicle. I figure there are several things going on, and I don't think it has to do with the tires (in my case). Once it starts, it doesn't stop until the vehicle is ~3 mph. First, I will be replacing the cones and springs. Next, I will try to put a single steering damper on there. I will also check the U-bolt torque. I have a feeling though that it is more than these things as the root cause. First, the axle is much heavier than the 10B it replaced. Are the shocks sufficiently damped to control the added mass? Probably not! Second, the reason we put the springs we do on our vehicles is for wheel clearance and flex. Well, the wheel clearance doesn't help any from a load standpoint. Basically, any side load on the axle goes through the springs and shackles to the frame. The moment arm is longer now with the lift springs/longer shackles, thus less stiff. Additionally, the springs are intended to ride softer. I think that the axle needs to be controlled laterlly, al la the panhard bar (or whatever people call it on 4x4's). Think about the Super Duty...they run Pan Hard bars on the leaf spring trucks. This will limit the lateral motion of the axle, so now the springs don't need to control this through twisting. A x-over can act like a panhard if you have the hydro-steering on there, thus the reason the hydro works as a band-aide.

I have reas stories on here where guys have completely rebuilt their axles, yet still have DW. Then they tighten the U-bolts, and it goes away for a while. I think that the U-bolts are helping to stiffen the springs torsionally, thus allowing them to twist less...helping the DW.

So, why don't stock trucks exhibit the DW? Well, the springs are reverse arched in most cases, so they have less moment arm, and are also probably naturally stiffer. They also are in a more stable orientation (reverese arched). This about balancing a hammer vertically on your hand. It is unstable (similar to the lifted truck). Now hang it between your fingers, it is stable (more like a stock truck).

Imbalanced tires will always be a problem, especially with large tires.
I think the root cause though is deeper. Alignment is probably also a reason (toe in alignment that is). Obviously worn parts is also problematic.


So, the real solution (if my theory is correct) is to add a panhard to the leaf sprung trucks...or 4-link and coilovers (or similar). Personally, I would rather go coil-overs...but that isn't going to happen any time soon. I guess I will try to put a panhard in and see what happens. Anyone have any examples of this? How does my theory sound?


Joshua

my jeep tj had the DW after lifting 3" and adding 33" bfg at's solved the problem with loger set of lower control arms, I have a chevy with 35" x-terains on the the stock supension and get the DW sometimes.

I'm thinking that adding a little extra castor to counter the extra tire scrub that is a result of wider tires and extra off set of the rims.
 
ok, so friday I put in brand new springs and bushings in the kingpins and the steering feels alot better. but It's still wobbles. could shackle bushing cause a lot wobbling? cause my bushings look pretty shot. anyways, I ordered some new ones from ORD on friday and they should be here thrusday. hopefully the bushing should fix the wobble.
 
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dude, I had new bushings, springs, everything completely rebuilt in my 60, combined with new poly bushings all the way around on the springs and I still had the wobble. Sorry but I think your gonna have to shim with washers again. I fixed my wobble with one washer, it has been good for a long time now. But when I was driving down the street yesterday it came back a bit. All it takes is one good bump hitting the tires just right and it sets it off. Did you balance your tires? I think a balanced tire will be alot less prone to the wobble.

by the way I was meaning to call you this saturday but I wanted to go to Toms first and pick up the stuff I need from him. You also need to see that savage run, its a little beast!
 
smokkey1 said:
ok, so friday I put in brand new springs and bushings in the kingpins and the steering feels alot better. but It's still wobbles. could shackle bushing cause a lot wobbling? cause my bushings look pretty shot. anyways, I ordered some new ones from ORD on friday and they should be here thrusday. hopefully the bushing should fix the wobble.

Could also be a cracked steering box mount.

The problem with DW is that is forces you to rebuild/replace everything up front and even then you're not guaranteed to eliminate it.... if you replace parts a little at a time, it can be very enlightening to see how much replacing a worn part will improve things.
 
jeremy, hit me up this weekend.

theres no crack on the frame. I just put a new steering box over the summer and I have a steering box brace... the bushings should be here tomorrow or thursday. and I'll replace them see how it goes and if its still there I'll shim the king pins again.

I may have to look into the lower bearings.
 
Did you try to toe it out a little bit?? I'd try and spin the tierod adjuster one time towards toe out, test drive and repeat a coulple of times to see if that helps. Make sure the steering wheel is centered as best as possible too!
 
no I haven't tried that.

"I'd try and spin the tierod adjuster one time towards toe out"

:confused: :confused: :confused: do I spin it toward the front or the rear of the truck?
 
85-m1028 said:
You'd need to take it to an alignment shop and have em tell you how many degrees it is now and then go from there.

you can use an angle finder
I was just reading in a thread that it needs to be between -4 and-8 degrees
 
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