Diesel Coolant Additive Query...

[uglytruk]

I have a few 6.2's and a 6.5, and was filling my '84 Suburban with whatever coolant I had lying around. I made a video of that, and someone commented that I should be using a heavy duty cooland and/or additive. I looked that up, and found an interesting blurb on ebay.

I also read a bit about the subject on this forum.

My '84 Blazer gets hot climbing the hill I use to get to work, as It's pretty steep, and I have a snowplow blocking the grill. I really wouldn't mind using the water wetter stuff I found on ebay if it'll help the engine run a bit cooler!

Here's the comment I got from a watcher of my vid

>>I saw the new/old vid of you putting coolant in your radiator. I know it sounds stupid (I thought so too at first), but that cheap stuff isn't conducive to long life from a diesel. The combustion is so fast and so high pressure in a diesel that the cylinder liners expand and contract rapidly. When they contract the water immediately around them boils and then the bubbles contract with immense force - eroding the metal (cavitation). I'm not a diesel mechanic by trade but I've torn down one diesel that had holes clear through the liners. Don't take it the wrong way, but a GM/Detroit Diesel V8 would appreciate any help it can get. Heavy Duty Coolant has phosphates and/or molybdates to prevent cavitation - you can get bottles of additive too. Either way expect an extra $15 to completely fill it from empty. But what about a diesel ISN'T more expensive? <<

Here's what I saw on ebay...

[SIZE=+3]TWO BOTTLES OF FORD DIESEL COOLANT SYSTEM ADDITIVE TREATS UP TO 8 GAL. OF COOLANT PREVENT ENGINE WEAR Cavitation, or cylinder liner pitting, is one of the most talked about articles on any diesel board. About 99% of light truck diesel owners don't know what it is, but they are scared of it. Cavitation is essentially, the erosion or pitting of the cylinder liner. Small vapor bubbles actually drill through the liner or engine block or heads from the coolant into the combustion chamber. This causes rapid coolant loss, and oil/coolant mixing. This is by all means, not a good thing. Damage such as this requires either new sleeves pressed into the block, or engine block or head replacement.

Here's the link to the ad

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/FORD...ptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
[/SIZE]

 

[diesel4me]

Sounds like a bunch of BS to me!...how did my 1980's 6.2's go 150K+ on "regular" anti-freeze if its so "harmful"???....if someoe wants to spend 15 more bucks and can afford too,then it's up to them whether to use it or not...but I wont waste MY money on it,especially now when they might be approaching the end of their life spans anyway..

By the way,if having the plow on makes your truck overheat or run hot,you can lock the fan clutch in the "locked" position by unclipping the spring in the center of it,and rotating it 180 degrees and clipping it back into the little holder--I did that to all my GM plow trucks,after wasting a few hundred bucks on new thermostats,radiators ,water pumps,etc,that failed to solve the overheating troubles I had with my plow on--at highway speeds I waslucky to go 10 miles before it peuked out of the overflow tank...once I locked the fa clutch I can go as far as I want at 65 mph with the temp gage never going over halfway ...

 

[AJMBLAZER]

Cavitation is real.

Apparently not much of an issue for us though. I asked about it once a good while back and was basically told 6.x family engines didn't have to worry about it much. Can't remember the reason exactly...think it was on TDR.

 

[AJMBLAZER]

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/showthread.php?t=34835&highlight=cavitation

 

[tRustyK5]

I think it's because the 6.2 and 6.5 even when turbo'd don't create the huge cylinder pressures needed to make cavitation a real issue. it is a real issue, just not so much for a 6.2.

Rene

 

[imiceman44]

I think it's because the 6.2 and 6.5 even when turbo'd don't create the huge cylinder pressures needed to make cavitation a real issue. it is a real issue, just not so much for a 6.2.

Rene

I don't know how much of an issue it is, even on my CAT engine in my big rig I have no requirement for anything other than over the shelf coolant.
I use the Dexcool because that's what was in it, although I use a cheaper replacement for it now after I had a leak in one of my hoses and I lost most of it.

 

[DEMON44]

cavitation damage in not the formation of air bubbles on the liner its the rapid collaps of those bubble that errode the liner walls. the major thrust surface of the liner is the primary target, as the piston goes past on the power stroke. the frequency collapes all those bubbles. All modern HD coolant is formulated with the nitrates package to fight that. what the additive package does is coats the entire cooling system interior. and does not allow the bubble to stick to anything. that is the key. doesn't prevent the formation. just the effects. thats why part of a service at any reputable location is testing coolant nitrates. additive bottles are cheap.

pitted and leaking from cavitation. we pull liners all the time that are pitted.

you can see the major thrust surface. obviously no cavitation here, but visual on the power transmitted from the piston to the liner.

 

[uglytruk]

I watched the state 6 engine being dismantled in a friends tandem dump truck, and the cylinders were badly pitted. The pits went rite thru the cylinders, leaking cooland into the combustion chamber. Now I know why...

I'll add the water wetter stuff, it's cheap, and not sure if I want to lock the fan, because it'll sound like a jet airplane. Better noisy than overheating and cooking a good motor, but sometimes the temp gage doesn't budge, and the t-stat is brand new.

The prev t-stat was locked shut, and would really o-heat going up that hill. After I changed the t-stat... I've stopped at the top the the hill, and immediately turned off the engine, and the fan is locked in the engaged position. Maybe it engages when it feels like it? I take it easy going up... Usually 20 mph. It's got nice scenery, so I take my time. Here's that ascent...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqTVU8LaRbE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqlCb04duBo

 

[maynardogle]

When I did my water pump, I noted the back plate, which is also the timing cover, had a bunch of little pits all around the gasket edge, but no corrosion visible. I showed it to my radiator guy and he said it was cavitation damage and hat it can happen anywhere inside the cooling system of a lots of different engines, but especially diesels. He had a wall fullof old waterpumps and several had wierd corrosion patters which he attributed to cavitation. I too was skeptical but a quick Google search of cavitation corrrosion shows lots of similar pctures. I read that the additives are basically designed to prevent the bubbles from forming in the first place. I have never put in an additive either, but I wonderif I should... My enginer has about 210K and still going strong...

 

[imiceman44]

When I did my water pump, I noted the back plate, which is also the timing cover, had a bunch of little pits all around the gasket edge, but no corrosion visible. I showed it to my radiator guy and he said it was cavitation damage and hat it can happen anywhere inside the cooling system of a lots of different engines, but especially diesels. He had a wall fullof old waterpumps and several had wierd corrosion patters which he attributed to cavitation. I too was skeptical but a quick Google search of cavitation corrrosion shows lots of similar pctures. I read that the additives are basically designed to prevent the bubbles from forming in the first place. I have never put in an additive either, but I wonderif I should... My enginer has about 210K and still going strong...

If you are using a quality coolant, you are fine, this happens to people running straight water, which I used to do a long time ago, but not since I came here.

 

[uglytruk]

I was wondering what the difference is between "Water Wetter", and "diesel WW"... This is a quote from their ad...

>Same improvements in cooling efficiency as Water Wetter, but without the rust and corrosion inhibitors. Designed for heavy-duty diesel engines which use more than 33% antifreeze.<

Hmmm... diesel WW has no rust or corrosion package???