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Different carbs for more power on the Sand.... holley, barry grant, carter?

Re: Different carbs for more power on the Sand.... holley, barry grant, car

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I disagree, my truck runs great with an 800 CFM Q-jet and I can't imagine a mech secondary carb that big having any place on a truck.

You guys are trying to re-engineer something that worked great on our trucks from the factory.

[/ QUOTE ] For high speed wheeling, I tend too agree on the Demon carb But for low speed with lots of off camber, I'd think a Q-jet would be best. Tim, what you fail too understand is that not everybody does the same type of wheeling that you do. What I'm doing, a Q-jet works great for me. But for the high speed things like Desert racing, I'd defently go with a Demon carb. I don't know much about sand running, but I assume it's a higher speed thing then crawling.

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You don't know much about carburator operation either. Q-jets have a vacuum operated secondary door and flow 750 or 795 cfm from the factory. It's hard to be a properly tuned Q-jet for any type of wheelin', not just slow speed stuff.

To be honest with you, even a Q-jet is insufficient for the wheelin' that I do. That's why I'm putting EFI on my truck...but once again you have swayed the discussion to what I do with my truck, which you seem to think has an effect on everything I say on here. It doesn't.

The Demon might have bling factor but that's just about it. A mechanical secondary carb has almost no place on a truck at all, and definitely not on a 4x4 that is going to see any off road use.

Off camber? EFI
DD/mild off road Q-jet
Straight off the trailer and to the mud pit? Big, mech secondary carb
 
Re: Different carbs for more power on the Sand.... holley, barry grant, car

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I disagree, my truck runs great with an 800 CFM Q-jet and I can't imagine a mech secondary carb that big having any place on a truck.

You guys are trying to re-engineer something that worked great on our trucks from the factory.

[/ QUOTE ] For high speed wheeling, I tend too agree on the Demon carb But for low speed with lots of off camber, I'd think a Q-jet would be best. Tim, what you fail too understand is that not everybody does the same type of wheeling that you do. What I'm doing, a Q-jet works great for me. But for the high speed things like Desert racing, I'd defently go with a Demon carb. I don't know much about sand running, but I assume it's a higher speed thing then crawling.

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You don't know much about carburator operation either. Q-jets have a vacuum operated secondary door and flow 750 or 795 cfm from the factory. It's hard to be a properly tuned Q-jet for any type of wheelin', not just slow speed stuff.

To be honest with you, even a Q-jet is insufficient for the wheelin' that I do. That's why I'm putting EFI on my truck...but once again you have swayed the discussion to what I do with my truck, which you seem to think has an effect on everything I say on here. It doesn't.

The Demon might have bling factor but that's just about it. A mechanical secondary carb has almost no place on a truck at all, and definitely not on a 4x4 that is going to see any off road use.

Off camber? EFI
DD/mild off road Q-jet
Straight off the trailer and to the mud pit? Big, mech secondary carb

[/ QUOTE ] First of all you don't know what I may or may not know. Secondly, not all Demon carbs are mechanical secondary carbs. I only brought up "the type of wheeling you do" because you are very closed minded about stuff you don't do. You have put down things that work very well for other people just because it doesn't fit in with what you do. EFI, good choice, if I had the funds, I'd go EFI aswell. It's hard too beat EFI, but it is more $$$ then a carb. About Demon carbs and "Bling". I personally couldn't care less how it looks. The Demon is a redesigned Holley made by Barry Grant. I've ran Holley's on many hot rods, and they have always out preformed the Q-jets. Granted, that was not a off road app. But your statement "The Demon might have bling factor but that's just about it." shows your inexperence.
 
Re: Different carbs for more power on the Sand.... holley, barry grant, car

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I've ran Holley's on many hot rods, and they have always out preformed the Q-jets.

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My take on the Q-jet vs. all the other carbs out there debate comes down to tuning, plain and simple. NO ONE I have ever known (well, one engineer that raced in a class requiring stock carb) has spent the time to tune a Q-jet like the factory did. These were guys running at least in the twelves on "stock" setups, although it's been so long I can't recall exactly how fast they were going, it very well could have been quicker than that.

I looked at the Demon site that was posted, yes, mech secondary vs. vacuum, I understand, and noticed (if I read it right) that the demon has 4 idle mix screws, (Q-jet has 2) it uses o-rings that might tear for the idle mix (Q-jet doesn't) and it uses a power valve, which seems to be similar to the power piston in the Q-jet, because both the PV and PP seem to be dependent on vacuum.

I'd be surprised if one person can step up and say they actually went in and played with the power piston setup (spring, stop on certain carbs) along with the primary rods and jets, on a Q-jet as a matter of tuning it in exactly.

I have a feeling the Holley, Edelbrock, whoever carbs are more EASILY adjusted, but very few people, if any, take the time to do the same tuning on a Q-jet.

So on that matter, unless someone has actually done back to back hardcore tuning on a Q-jet, and compared it with a Holley, etc. in something measurable like 1/4 mile running or dyno testing on the same dyno, saying the Q-jet was costing power is incorrect. The lack of tuning is more than likely what was costing power.

Very few will argue that the Q-jet is worse than another carb off-road, but the street argument always comes up.

Also, perhaps it was in the latest car craft, they did some testing on carb size vs. power output. Torque continued to climb as the carburetor got larger, and IIRC, torque was still climbing after they were well over the "recommended" carb size for that engine. If you notice, GM started using 800CFM Q-jets on smaller engines as a matter of course, where earlier they were mostly 750's. 305's in trucks (for sure) got 800's for a number of years, and the Q-jets put on the 1980's Oldsmobile 307's were all 800's as well...previously in the 1970's, the 350's were getting 750CFM carbs almost exclusively.

So, GM apparently knew what they were doing well before anyone else figured it out, even though conventional wisdom would say they screwed up and were overcarbing the engines.

Obviously, in some applications, a vacuum secondary carb just isn't the appropriate choice, but unless someone steps up with some serious tuning comparisons to BOTH carbs under their belt, I say leave the "q-jet costs power" argument at the door.

Do not forget economics. These aftermarket companies can not afford to have their basic carbs cost as much as GM could afford on new vehicles. No one would or could buy them if the aftermarket spent all the time on them that GM did, tuning each carb to that particular engine, axle ratio, transmission, intake, ignition, and so on.

Sure, some of the aftermarkets are extremely pricey, the majority of them are quite reasonable, but to be so, have to be made simply/cheaply, and can't have tons of R&D into them. Again, nowhere near what GM had. Time probably makes up for some of the R&D they can't afford, but as MJ stated, the engine doesn't care how the fuel gets where it needs to be, and the cheapest way that people will still buy, is how the aftermarket makes money.

Sooner or later I'm going to get off my butt and rebuild/sell all these q-jet I have laying in my garage, shed, neighbors. This topic gives me some motivation:)
 
Re: Different carbs for more power on the Sand.... holley, barry grant, car

here we go again
This guy is asking for different opinions...not a bunch a squawking birds pissing at each-other...say your piece and move on, no need to argue or defend it…these are “opinions”


No carb is a suits all needs carb…he just wants the carb that satisfies HIS needs….


my opinion is for the price of a off road carb "a good one" he can purchase a tbi set up for a stock/ mild motor...if he runs a wild motor then a carb would be alot cheaper...IMHO
 
Re: Different carbs for more power on the Sand.... holley, barry grant, car

Guy asked for info about which carb is better, etc. Only thing I see here is people offering reasons WHY certain carbs are good or bad.
 
Re: Different carbs for more power on the Sand.... holley, barry grant, car

screw it im just gonna get a Davinci carb... $1200 major
bling /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif /forums/images/graemlins/whistling.gif

Im gonna try to tune the Qjet for awhile, and sometime down the road i might just buy a double pumper and do my own comparisons on the sand and the rocks/trails.... Thx for the info yall.
 
Re: Different carbs for more power on the Sand.... holley, barry grant, car

Put A Predator carb on that Motor. quadrajunks belong at the bottom of the trash can. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
 
Re: Different carbs for more power on the Sand.... holley, barry grant, car

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Put A Predator carb on that Motor.

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/forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
 
Re: Different carbs for more power on the Sand.... holley, barry grant, car

Before you begin "tuning" you need to learn what needs to be 'tuned'
most people [censored] up a carb by 'tuning'
stay away from airfuel ratio changes but work on throttle response = mostly accelerator circuit tuning
assuming the factory did it's job the airfuel ratio will be very close regardless of what engine it is on
the carb doesnt see the enigine, it only sees airflow and adds fuel to match the airflow.
 
Re: Different carbs for more power on the Sand.... holley, barry grant, car

Josh
as ya know runnin the sand here isn't desert wheelin, short straights and bowls.
Depending on where ya go and what time of year they are usualy long and steep.
From personal experiance runnin in the sand around here...
Holly.. bogs out half way up and takes forever to restart.
Ebrock same thing. Good carb on pavement.
Ebrock with offroad kit... wise investment. /forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif got 3/4 the way up. whoo hoo.
Scrounged up crusty q-jet of unknown origins.... almost ran over a Zuk when it was 3/4 of the way up and I dropped the clutch and followed.
Suprised the crap out of me.
For the area we are in a properly set up Q-jet would be your best bet.
Why would ya even think about spending $1200 on a carb? /forums/images/graemlins/screwy.gif
Spend $800 more and just get a good injection set up and be done.
 
Re: Different carbs for more power on the Sand.... holley, barry grant, car

You could get a diesel and then you'd have NO carbuerator to worry about-and it will never flood out or stall halfway up a hill! /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif
As I was removing the EGR valve to put on an edelbrock carb on my 305 "nightmare"motor swap,I was thinking--I should have bought that 6.2 I saw at the boneyard--I wouldnt be removing EGR valves,fiddling with adaptors,no distributor to put in out of time,no tangled mess of spark plug wires(or spark plugs either!)and it would get between 15-24 mpg .Shoulda,woulda,coodaa--too late now I guess!.
I wonder how come you dont see many 2 barrel carbs on off road rigs-I had a 2GC rochester on an old 68 K10 that would climb snowbanks all the way to the top without a sputter,my friend in his IHC scout could only get halfway up before it flooded.I put an AFB carb on it,that was the end of my climbing capability--I ended up trying a quadrajet,and it was better(but it was off a 400 pontiac,not jetted properly for the 307,so I eventually put the 2 barrel carb back on during the winter plowing season.Anyone on here run a 2 barrell carb??. /forums/images/graemlins/ears.gif /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
 
Re: Different carbs for more power on the Sand.... holley, barry grant, car

From what little I know about sand, it's about over-all being light and good+ power-to-weight ratio, neither of which has ever been said about a 6.2/6.5.

I agree on the Q-Jet. Hands down best, no question, no discussion, for anything but the drag strip. And it will hold it's own on the drag strip, though it's a bit more complicated than a Holley (POS IMO).

Or, as suggested, get EFI. TBI conversion could be done easily for $500 or even less depending. Or for sand, I might well go with TPI for better power possibilities.
 
there has been alot of opinions, but something I haven't seen discussed is the truck avenger, is this carb any good? I'm about to pick one up, so any info would be good.
 
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there has been alot of opinions, but something I haven't seen discussed is the truck avenger, is this carb any good? I'm about to pick one up, so any info would be good.

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There is only one good truck/offroad carb and that is a quadrajet.

There really isn't any need to say any more than that.
 
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