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Distributor problem?

black rust

black rust

1/2 ton status
Joined
Jun 29, 2007
Posts
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Location
Beecher, IL
My truck won't start, and I can't figure out why. Before I swapped the trans, it ran fine, now after the swap, it won't run at all. At one point, the engine fell off the jackstand and put the distributor into the firewall. I put a different cap on, even though the original one didn't look damaged. I pulled the distributor out, and it didn't look bent and turned easily. When I try to start it, I can hear popping noises that sound like the cylinders firing, but it refuses to catch. I made sure every cylinder was getting spark, and that the distributor lined up with number 1 cylinder at TDC on the compression stroke. I'm sure I am not 180 degrees off, because the distributor wasn't moved during the swap.
Is is possible there is some damage to the distributor that I can't easily see? I was thinking about just going to the junkyard and getting a different one to try, do you think this would help? Any ideas at all?
I also pinched two wires between the block and the bellhousing during the swap, but I repaired them, and I am pretty sure neither one is doing this, but I guess I'm looking for some reassurance. One was the starter solenoid wire and the other is a pink wire going down to the starter, I think it give power to the fusebox.
 
Doesn't one of the wires running to the starter have a fusible link? I don't think that is your problem because you said it does turn over. Did you check the timing? Possibly an ignition module? Just throwing some ideas out there.
 
I checked the timing as much as I know how without the truck running: making sure that #1 is at TDC, beyond that I need a timing light, and it has to run for that. I also tried starting it while a friend was advancing and retarding the timing to find a good spot, and still had no luck. Neither of the wires had a fusible link either, but I don't know if it was removed or that is a different wire.
I'm somewhat uneducated: is the ignition module part of the distributor? is there any way to test it?
forgot to mention, 1985 k5, 305/700r4
 
black rust said:
I checked the timing as much as I know how without the truck running: making sure that #1 is at TDC, beyond that I need a timing light, and it has to run for that. I also tried starting it while a friend was advancing and retarding the timing to find a good spot, and still had no luck. Neither of the wires had a fusible link either, but I don't know if it was removed or that is a different wire.
I'm somewhat uneducated: is the ignition module part of the distributor? is there any way to test it?
forgot to mention, 1985 k5, 305/700r4
Click to expand...

How many wires run to your ignition module? 4 or 5?
 
If the ignition module has the black plug with wires running under the cap, it's 4 wires. I also just checked the battery connection to the distributor, it is getting about 8 volts when cranking and zero when the key is in the run position, I'm guessing that isn't right?
 
black rust said:
If the ignition module has the black plug with wires running under the cap, it's 4 wires. I also just checked the battery connection to the distributor, it is getting about 8 volts when cranking and zero when the key is in the run position, I'm guessing that isn't right?
Click to expand...

Take off the cap... under that is the ignition module on a HEI distributor.

It looks like this:

IgnitionModule.jpg


http://chevy.off-road.com/chevy/data/articlestandard/chevy/472005/200756/IgnitionModule.jpg


That's a 4 pin module (two on either side). The 5 pin one has 3 pins on one side, two on the other.
 
black rust said:
If the ignition module has the black plug with wires running under the cap, it's 4 wires. I also just checked the battery connection to the distributor, it is getting about 8 volts when cranking and zero when the key is in the run position, I'm guessing that isn't right?
Click to expand...

Which wire are you testing with the key on?
 
jonrpick said:
Which wire are you testing with the key on?
Click to expand...
the connection on the cap labeled batt, it's a one pin connector with a pink wire.

I looked at the ignition module, it has 5 pins, two on one connector, three on another, but all on the same side, if that makes sense.
 
black rust said:
the connection on the cap labeled batt, it's a one pin connector with a pink wire.

I looked at the ignition module, it has 5 pins, two on one connector, three on another, but all on the same side, if that makes sense.
Click to expand...

Ok, well seems like a wiring issue... If you're not getting a full 12VDC at the pink wire, then start tracing it back.
 
My favorite, wiring issues:doah:
quick question, shouldn't that wire be getting power when the key is in the run position?
 
black rust said:
My favorite, wiring issues:doah:
quick question, shouldn't that wire be getting power when the key is in the run position?
Click to expand...

Yes, it should...

Really, that should be the only connection to a HEI distributor. The 5-pin module also connects to the ESC under the dash via a connection coming out of the back of the HEI and going to the firewall. That can be bypassed easily, and in fact it's a GM-approved mod. The ESCs apparently had issues. I didn't have the problem, but bypassed my ESC while rewiring the truck just for simplicity.

When you're checking for power in the run position, you have it disconnected from the HEI, correct?
 
To be honest, I don't even know what part the HEI is. My distributor has three connections, the battery connection previously mentioned, another 3 wire (i think) connection right next to that on the cap, and a black 4 wire connection, with three wires going under the distributor cap to the ignition module.
 
black rust said:
To be honest, I don't even know what part the HEI is. My distributor has three connections, the battery connection previously mentioned, another 3 wire (i think) connection right next to that on the cap, and a black 4 wire connection, with three wires going under the distributor cap to the ignition module.
Click to expand...

HEI = High Energy Ignition

Sorry... HEI is the distributor...rather the type of distributor. So when I say HEI I mean distributor. They're interchangeable in this case.

That last connection you mention is the one that goes to the ESC (electronic spark control) module up under the dash. Like I said, that can be omitted, but two wires in that harness need to be jumped together to make it work.

The 3-wire connector next to the pink wire goes from the ignition module to the coil, which is up in the top of the cap.

Unplug the pink wire from the cap, put your multimeter on it and test for 12VDC with the ignition on...unless of course that's how you did it the first time.
 
Yeah, I knew HEI was the type of distributor, I misunderstood you and thought there was a specific part called the HEI. When I tested the wire I put on lead of the multimeter into the plug and the other on the battery ground.

Which two wires need to be jumped to bypass the ESC?
 
black rust said:
Yeah, I knew HEI was the type of distributor, I misunderstood you and thought there was a specific part called the HEI. When I tested the wire I put on lead of the multimeter into the plug and the other on the battery ground.

Which two wires need to be jumped to bypass the ESC?
Click to expand...

Disconnect the connector going up to the firewall. On the end still connected to the distributor, cut green and black, then connect the two together.

http://www.73-87.com/7387garage/drivetrain/escrepl/plug1.jpg


plug1.jpg


Good thread about the ESC here:

http://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/176666/

Do you have a 305 engine or 350??? Look in the glove box. If it's a 305, see if you have the code LE9 listed...
 
Yup, I have a LE9 305, assuming the engine is original, which I'm not sure it is. I tried bypassing the ESC with a jumper wire in the plug, with no success. When I put some starting fluid in it, it sounded like it might have run, but I think I flodded it, so I'll wait a little while and try again. If it's a no go, then I'll start tracing that pink wire back and see what I find.
 
black rust said:
Yup, I have a LE9 305, assuming the engine is original, which I'm not sure it is. I tried bypassing the ESC with a jumper wire in the plug, with no success. When I put some starting fluid in it, it sounded like it might have run, but I think I flodded it, so I'll wait a little while and try again. If it's a no go, then I'll start tracing that pink wire back and see what I find.
Click to expand...

Yeah, you'll need to retard the timing a bit on the 305, since the purpose of the ESC is to do exactly that when it detects it via a knock sensor.

If it's not a problem, I'd reconnect after you get it started. But this make troubleshooting easier since you're down to the bare minimum.

Let me know what happens with the pink wire. I'll see if I can find my wiring manual. Should be basically the same on the '85.
 
I've been looking at this and there seems to be only one explanation: I crossed the wires that I reconnected when they were pinched. There is a red one and a pink one. The pink one is connected to a red wire after my fix and the red one is connected to a pink wire.

Let me try and put that more clearly. There is a pink wire coming up from the starter. I have that patched to a red wire that I assume is the starter solenoid wire because I didn't solder it right the first time and the starter wouldn't crank. There is also a red wire coming up from the starter. That one is patched to a red wire. I don't know for sure what it does, but it runs all the way into the cab and someone suggested it was the power wire for the fusebox.

If I mixed these wire up what would happen. Also, where are they supposed to attach to the starter, because the red one was accidentally ripped off because the connection to the starter was weak. I put it back where I though it went, but maybe it ended up in the wrong place. The pink wire definitely fires the starter, but I'm thinking if I somehow mixed them up, that would explain why the distributor is only getting power when the key is in the start position.

Opinions on my long and confusing explanation?
 
black rust said:
I've been looking at this and there seems to be only one explanation: I crossed the wires that I reconnected when they were pinched. There is a red one and a pink one. The pink one is connected to a red wire after my fix and the red one is connected to a pink wire.

Let me try and put that more clearly. There is a pink wire coming up from the starter. I have that patched to a red wire that I assume is the starter solenoid wire because I didn't solder it right the first time and the starter wouldn't crank. There is also a red wire coming up from the starter. That one is patched to a red wire. I don't know for sure what it does, but it runs all the way into the cab and someone suggested it was the power wire for the fusebox.

If I mixed these wire up what would happen. Also, where are they supposed to attach to the starter, because the red one was accidentally ripped off because the connection to the starter was weak. I put it back where I though it went, but maybe it ended up in the wrong place. The pink wire definitely fires the starter, but I'm thinking if I somehow mixed them up, that would explain why the distributor is only getting power when the key is in the start position.

Opinions on my long and confusing explanation?
Click to expand...

I think you pretty much nailed it...

Put red-to-red and pink-to-pink... try again... :wink1:
 
If that was the problem, I'm gonna feel like a ****ing idiot, I've been trying to figure this out for close to a month:angry1:
 
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